I'm still mulling over how to document marriages that refer to "The Parish Church", as in the following:
First Reference
England, “Certified copy of an entry of Marriage”, Co. of Middlesex, Par. of Tottenham, entry no. 135, Thomas Wells & Hannah Martin, married 30 Apr 1857, in the Parish Church, after Banns; certificate MXB 990699, issued 10 Mar 2005, General Registry Office, Southport. Based upon the date, the “Parish Church” appears to refer to All Hallows Church, Church Lane, Tottenham, London N17 7AA.
[Note that I included the certificate number as a file-reference in my personal records.]
The discursive note about the church was based upon;
A P Baggs. Diane K Bolton. Eileen P Scarff. G C Tyack. "Tottenham: Churches", in A History of the County of Middlesex: Volume 5, Hendon, Kingsbury, Great Stanmore, Little Stanmore, Edmonton Enfield, Monken Hadley, South Mimms, Tottenham, (London, 1976) 348-355. British History Online, accessed June 21, 2024, https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/m ... /pp348-355. [citation per the website].
At the time there was also a chapel associated with All Hallows Church and there was a "chapel of ease" in the area. I'm starting to wonder if the phrase, "The Parish Church" was typically used in a more general sense and might refer to the marriage having taken place in any of the buildings associated with All Hallows, Tottenham. I've seen this situation in some areas of Canada, where ceremonies could be carried out anywhere in the parish by the minister, but were recorded in the a single parish register, kept by the governing church in the parish (at that time). In Canada, I know of events that were even carried out in a private residence, but recorded in the parish register. So; a generic location-name may have been used to simplify record-keeping, because the geographical location could vary so much. If this is the case; one can only try to consistently record the governing church (at that point in time) with the understanding that it means the event might anywhere within the bounds of that parish. If the record explicitly states a church, then one might assume the minister was being specific for a reason and record that church.
Could I ask for the benefit of your experience in recording an event location in such circumstances?
Hello, History-Hunter, With…
Hello, History-Hunter,
With regard to the discursive note, because you say “it appears that …” careful users of your work would indeed expect you to include the basis for your conclusion or supposition—i.e., that second source you cite.
If you wish your First Reference Note to be in Evidence Style, a couple of tweaks would be in order:
England,“Certified copy of an entry of Marriage”, Co. of Middlesex, Par. of Tottenham, entry no. 135, Thomas Wells & Hannah Martin, married 30 Apr 1857, in the Parish Church, after Banns; certificate MXB 990699, issued 10 Mar 2005, General Registry Office, Southport, England. Based upon the date, the “Parish Church” appears to refer to All Hallows Church, Church Lane, Tottenham, London N17 7AA.In the first instance, the place “England,” needs to follow “Southport.” Aside from that one word, your sequence of elements starts with the smallest (the document) and leads up to the largest (the locale). England is the largest entity in that sequence. If you’re using EE4, this issue of logical sequence of elements is covered within Template 8, with other discussions at 3.15 and 4.3. If you’re still using EE3 rev., see 3.3, 4.3.
The second strike-through is made above because the information is not intrinsic to a source citation. It’s part of the detail that we would put in our research notes—the abstract, transcript, database entry or whatever that we create from each document we consult—or our final narratve. As a rule:
Within this framework, your statement that the marriage likely occured at All Hallows would be stated in your narrative or your database, to which you would attach a discursive note such as:
The document’s statement that the couple married in the “parish church” does not identify the church. The conclusion that it is likely the current All Hallows Church on Church Lane, Tottenham, London N1 7AA, is drawn from ... [add your source for this conclusion].
I appreciate your feedback. …
I appreciate your feedback.
Some of the information in the reference had to be included in a way that my genealogical program data-entry add-on could handle. So, it did not fully adhere to EE-Style.
My actual reason for posting in the "Record Usage and Interpretation" forum was to ask whether my interpretation in the following was in line with your experience in that area.
"At the time there was also a chapel associated with All Hallows Church and there was a "chapel of ease" in the area. I'm starting to wonder if the phrase, "The Parish Church" was typically used in a more general sense and might refer to the marriage having taken place in any of the buildings associated with All Hallows, Tottenham. I've seen this situation in some areas of Canada, where ceremonies could be carried out anywhere in the parish by the minister, but were recorded in the a single parish register, kept by the governing church in the parish (at that time). In Canada, I know of events that were even carried out in a private residence, but recorded in the parish register. So; a generic location-name may have been used to simplify record-keeping, because the geographical location could vary so much. If this is the case; one can only try to consistently record the governing church (at that point in time) with the understanding that it means the event might anywhere within the bounds of that parish. If the record explicitly states a church, then one might assume the minister was being specific for a reason and record that church."
History-Hunter, Tottenham is…
History-Hunter, Tottenham, England, is not an area in which I have enough experience to speak authoritatively to your problem. In other areas in which I have worked extensively, sacraments administered in the home would be recorded in the parish register. That's a point I just made in the recording I did Monday for this month's Legacy webinar, "How to Find the Truth about a Family Story." (https://familytreewebinars.com/webinar/how-to-find-the-truth-about-a-family-story/)
I've also noticed that when church clerks make "certificates" from their registers in response to requests from attorneys, genealogists, and historians, they typically assume that the event occurred in the church, even when it occurred 20 or 30 miles away while the minister was "riding circuit." That assumption has seriously mislead researchers. In last year's webinar "Okay, I Got the Neighbors—Now What Do I Do with Them?" (https://familytreewebinars.com/webinar/using-negative-evidence-the-power-of-silence-in-the-records/) I used one such situation to demonstrate how to prove that the event did take place in a jurisdiction 40 miles from the town in which the event was registered.
Beyond that, I would not comment on what might happen in a specific locale unless and until I not only (a) studied the social or church histories of the area, but also (b) studied the registers themselves, deeply, to define patterns.
I still have one small…
I still have one small question...
In England, it is not uncommon to have a register that is identified as simply for the "The Parish Church". The actual name of the parish church and its geographic location within the parish is not always known. In England, one also needs to be careful to differentiate between the parish and a city/town of the same name. I also deal with churches in many countries and need to address that, as well.
Would it be reasonable to use something like, "The Parish Church (Par. of Brenchley, Co. of Kent, England)", in my citations? This would definitely be clear to a reader. If the actual church is specified, then I'd substitute its name for "The Parish Church" and use its geographic location.
Yes.
Yes.