Death certificate from Netherlands issued by Germany, unsourced photocopy

So here's my issue, i've located an unsourced photocopy of a death certificate, issued by Germany, for a Dutch citizen. The dates are right so it's likely valid. Here goes my citation for this.

Layer 1 is the certificate, issued by the 3rd Reich. Layer2 is the web site where i located the information. Layer 3 should be the repository for this information but it's not given (sure wish those who'd done this had read EE and put the citation on the photocopy, one can hope for the future :)

German Reich, The German Registrar (Vught, Nord-Barbant, Netherlands), death certificate, No. Vught 169/1943, Mozes de Metz, issued 16 August 1944; consulted at Joods Monument, database and images, "Mozes de Metz (birth 4 May 1902)," (https://www.joodsmonument.nl/en/page/135032/mozes-de-metz : 19 April 2020).

I've added the birth into the page name to help differentiate between the multiple mozes de metz in the system. 

There also needs to be a long discussion regarding veracity of this certificate. It's issued a month and a half before the camp is liberated and a year and a half after his death. 

Source listing

German Reich, The German Registrar. Death Certificates. Joods Monument. Digital Collection. Database and images. https://joodsmonument.nl : 2020.

Because i'm missing layer 3 the source listing seems wrong to include just the website. 

Submitted byEEon Mon, 04/20/2020 - 09:37

cryptoref, as a caveat: this is not a record set that I'm familiar with or a language I'm fluent with. That said, it seems you've covered most of the essentials. EE would make just a couple of tweaks in each format:

First Reference Note:

1. In citing the page at the website, your instincts are right that you need to add something more to the name so this man will not be confused with other same name people. However, when we put something within quotation marks, we have to quote exactly. The page itself has a longer title from which you could quote the first two lines: "Mozes de Metz: Amsterdam, 4 May 1902 – Vught, 27 February 1943."  In your draft, you put your added words in parentheses, but parentheses send the wrong message there. See 2.58 “Square (Editorial) Brackets” for the difference between the use of parentheses and square editorial brackets.

2. EE would lowercase the n in “No.”  When writing in American English, we don’t capitalize page, volume, number, plate, figure or similar words. The capitalization rule for us is that capitalization is used only for proper nouns (official names, etc.), not generic words. See EE 2.59.

3. There's a comma splice between the name of the database and the open parens for the URL.

The result is this:

        1. German Reich, The German Registrar (Vught, Nord-Barbant, Netherlands), death certificate, no. Vught 169/1943, Mozes de Metz, issued 16 August 1944; consulted at Joods Monument, database and images, "Mozes de Metz: Amsterdam, 4 May 1902 — Vught, 27 February 1943” (https://www.joodsmonument.nl/en/page/135032/mozes-de-metz : 19 April 2020).

Source List Entry:

1. In a source list entry, a period goes after each element of the citation. Ergo, “German Reich” (the nation-state) and “The German Registrar” (the office) should have a period between them.

2. The phrase “Digital Collection” seems redundant, given that you are also citing “Database and images” followed by a URL. Those last two pieces of information make it obvious that you’re citing a digital collection.

The result would be this:

German Reich. The German Registrar. Death Certificates. Joods Monument. Database and images. https://joodsmonument.nl : 2020.

As for Layer 3 (the source your source cites for the information): If our source does not say where it got its information then we can use Layer 3 to say something such as “this source does not identify where it obtained the imaged certificate.”

Submitted byyhoitinkon Mon, 04/20/2020 - 10:22

I'm a genealogist from the Netherlands and regularly use this website. The photocopy is not unsourced, but cites "Duitse akte overlijden, Centraal Bureau voor Genealogie." The German death records are a collection that is kept by the Central Bureau for Genealogy. They are digitized and available online for members via http://www.cbgbibliotheek.nl. 

The record creator is not the German Reich but the civil registration of Vught ("Deutsches Standesamt Vught"). 

My citation for this record would be:

German civil registration (Vught, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands), death certificate, no. Vught 169/1943, Mozes de Metz, issued 16 August 1944; consulted at Joods Monument, database and images, "Mozes de Metz: Amsterdam, 4 May 1902 — Vught, 27 February 1943” (https://www.joodsmonument.nl/en/page/135032/mozes-de-metz : 19 April 2020); citing "Duitse akte overlijden, Centraal Bureau voor Genealogie."

Submitted byyhoitinkon Mon, 04/20/2020 - 10:28

My apologies, it published a preview version of my reply, not the corrected and expanded version. Attempt two:

The website should be http://www.cbg.nl, section "Verzamelingen."

My citation would be:

German civil registration (Vught, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands), death certificate, no. 169/1943, Mozes de Metz, issued 16 August 1944; consulted at Joods Monument, database and images, "Mozes de Metz: Amsterdam, 4 May 1902 — Vught, 27 February 1943” (https://www.joodsmonument.nl/en/page/135032/mozes-de-metz : 19 April 2020); citing "Duitse akte overlijden, Centraal Bureau voor Genealogie."

Note the small spelling correction in "Noord-Brabant." I deleted "Vught" from the number of the death certificate since Vught is where the record was created and not part of the number. I added a layer to describe the source-of-the-source. 

Vught was the location of concentration camp Herzogenbusch. The records for the camp are now kept by the Red Cross and are available via their Arolsen Archives website. They have the prison card for Mozes de Metz.

For more information about the camp, see Camp Vught National Memorial.

Great detail thanks so much for the help. I guess i'm going to have to bite the bullet and pay for the CBG access. I was hoping to do the work without paying for another site :)

I'd already seen the prison card, but that confuses me a bit the Arolsen title says its the Judenrat card from Amsterdam, is that the same as a prison card? I assumed it was the card the authorities were using in Amsterdam, not what was passed on to the camps. The cards are one in the same?