Unindexed probate file on FamilySearch

Hello, Greg.  This example gives us a lot to unpack!

Unindexed vs. indexed

You describe the collection as “Unindexed probate file.” So, how did you find it?  Using the tools that are accessible from the exact URL you gave (thank you for that!), we can backtrack and find a query box for names, so the collection has been indexed, at least to the file-name level—which means every deceased person for whom a probate was opened.

On the other hand, FamilySearch does not provide a “path” for us to follow, so it appears that the index feature is the one FamilySearch assumes that users will use. However, citing to the search-query form for the collection would complicate the citation.

Layer 1: ID of original file

For this set of records, you have chosen to identify the original document in Layer 1. However, if you were to go to Catawba County, to the office that handles probate records, would you be able to find that document using the details that are there in Layer 1?  No.

The crux of the issue here is that the records are no longer in the Catawba County courthouse. They have been removed to the NC State Archives, where they have been rearranged into the system used by that repository.

Layer 2: Name of database

Your Layer 2 (the ID of the image provider) tells us these images are in a collection that is exactly titled “Wills and Estate papers (Catawba County), 1663-1078: Original Wills Abernethy, Albert – Reitzel, Christian G.”  However, when I query FamilySearch for that exact title, using the search box for collection titles,  I get no results.

So, let’s rethink things here:

At the link you give, we see the following:

At the top of the image, we see the film number and the frame number, but no path. At the bottom of the image we see a tab called “Information.”  That tells us that the imaged file is from a set of records called

• “Wills and estate papers (Caswell County), 1663-1978”  or
• “Wills and estate papers (Catawba County), 1663–1976”

However, at this point, we don't know whether that record set is the actual collection title or one small part of a larger collection.

Examining the imaged records from that folder, we see that the file is  from Catawba County.  Looking at your draft citation, we see two things

1. You have correctly copied the name of the Catawba County collection/record set. However, you have added to that title, within quotation marks, data that does not appear in the actual title that FamilySearch gives.
2. The information you added is part of two pieces of descriptive data that FamilySearch added under “Item Number” and “Film/Digital Note.”  It’s useful data, but it is not part of the title.

That is one reason why my search for that collection in FamilySearch’s catalog failed to yield the collection. Bottom line: When we copy a title and put in quotation marks, we have to copy it exactly or else the ID system doesn’t work.

The phrase “Wills and estate papers (Catawba County), 1663-1978” is colored as a hotlink. When we click it, we find out that it is not the title of a FamilySearch collection. The Catawba County papers are only part of a largercollection that has a different name.  Clicking the hotlink gives us this screen:

T

he header on this page is the actual collection name: “North Carolina Estate Files, 1663–1979.” (Again, we see here the search form, searchable by name, which tells us that indexing has occurred.)

If we go to FamilySearch.org and click Search > Records, then enter the words “North Carolina Estate Files, 1663-1979,” we instantly get that collection, under that title (along with the search form.  

Clearly, this is the title we should use in the citation field for Database Title: "North Carolina Estate Files, 1663–1979."

We also note at the bottom of the above screen, the hot-linked option “Browse through 6,230,000 images.” That means we have a "browsable" collection from FamilySearch, rather than an "unindexed" collection.

If we click this browsing link, we get a series of menus that give us a simple path we can cite.  Here, I could click Catawba County > “A” > Abernathy, Miles C. (1877) and I am taken directly to the image that you hot-linked. Displayed at the top is the path to follow:

Considering all this, what is the simplest approach to citing the image? EE would choose the path approach, creating this Reference Note for the first item imaged from the folder:

“North Carolina Estate Files, 1663–1979,” database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:2:77TD-J347 : accessed 29 April 2021) > Catawba County > A > Abernathy, Miles C (1877) > image 2, Petition of Rebecca Crouse, 20 August 1880;  citing North Carolina Division of Archives and History, State Archives, Raleigh.

A corresponding short form used for a Subsequent Reference Note would be:

“North Carolina Estate Files, 1663–1979,” FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:2:77TD-J347 ), image 2, Petition of Rebecca Crouse, 20 August 1880.

A simple Source List Entry would be:

“North Carolina Estate Files, 1663–1979.” Database with images. FamilySearch. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:2:77TD-J347. Catawba County.

First test of a citation: Can someone else find what we found by using what we cite. :)

So: After that "inordinate amount of time searching on FamilySearch" (which I definitely understand because I spent that, too, yesterday), how and where did you find a "collection" called "Wills and estate papers (Catawba County), 1663-1978"?

Testing myself again just now, on FS's main search page, in the section "Find a Collection," I entered that exact set of words in the box for collection name:

That turned up nothing.  As I mentioned in my first response, after I waded through other approaches, I found the phrase "Wills and estate papers (Catawba County), 1663-1978" only as a subgroup of the much bigger collection "North Carolina Estate Files, 1663–1979."  Those subgroups aren't discoverable by querying "Find a Collection."

You also have me officially puzzled.   Your  "Abernathy, Miles C." does not appear in the Catawba County wills and estate papers, when approached through the "North Carolina Estate Files, 1663–1979," but you do have  images of the file that you found another way?  Obviously that citation needs to clarify the route through which you ended up finding it! 

Aha, I found a gateway, but that "Wills and estate papers (Catawba County), 1663-1978" still is not a named database title that you should insert into that field of the citation. It's still just a group of filmed records that's described in the catalog. The route I used is this:

That query gave me this:

So now, Greg, after a lot of complications, the citation gets a lot simpler. It's a standard citation in which Layer 1 cites the original document and Layer 2 cites the FamilySearch website (URL) > film > image number.

Starting with the image, the key to your citation is to backtrack on that roll of film to find the start of the "record set" (not collection <g>) that you are using. Those 1895 frame cover several different record sets. Fortunately, your person-of-interest had a name beginning with Ab...., so it did not take long to find the start of the record set. There, at image 1513, we find this:

This "film target" gives us the data we need to create a citation with full data in Layer 1. Notice also that the record set is Original Wills, rather than "Probate Case Files" or "Probate file."

Using this data, a Reference Note to the whole file would say:

Catawba County, North Carolina, Original Wills, folder:  “Abernethy (Abernathy), Miles  1872,” State Archives of North Carolina, Raleigh; imaged, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9G4-SHZ3 : accessed 27 April 2021)> FHL digital film 1,548,326 > images 1520–1525 of 1895.

DNA is definitely a wonderful addition to our tool kit.  Re "looking at the initial frame of the film series to gather information for the citation,"  that's the same as looking at the title page of a book, no?

Hi, EE, I have a situation similar to Greg's. I want to cite documents from sets of loose estate packet papers that are now online at FamilySearch. I cannot find them in the catalog, online under images or via full text searching. Here is a link to a list of the sets of loose papers. https://www.familysearch.org/records/images/beta/search-results?place=392663&lifeEvent=127179&lifeEventRecordTypes=122797%2C123349%2C124082%2C124277%2C124410%2C126370%2C126416%2C126417%2C126517%2C126593%2C126785%2C127010%2C131477&page=1

I recognize the volume, box, and name information as the information used by the Indiana State Archives to index these sets of documents. However, the information on FamilySearch does not mention that the originals of these documents are at the Indiana State Archives. I know they are there, because I have ordered some of these documents from the State Archives. 

This is an example of the sort of citation FamilySearch gives, but I don't find it acceptable. "Posey, Indiana, United States records," images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-CQY9-5F56?view=explore : Oct 12, 2024), image 1 of 121;

I would add the year of the file and change "United States Records" to Loose Estate Packets (description, not a title). Also I would add "volume B000013920J, Box 12, William Young Sr."  to cite the location in the archive, but FamilySearch does not identify the archive. 

Advice please?

Thanks!

Here's my attempt at citing a document from one of these record sets. Please critique.

Posey County, Indiana, "Probate/Estate Case Files," Volume B000015132Z, Box 4, Daniel Barton, inventory, 25 February 1846; imaged, FamilySearch (Https://www.familysearch.org : accessed 11 October 2024) image group 114416145 > images 1-2 of 91; [repository of originals not cited; originals are at Indiana State Archive, Indianapolis, Indiana.]

I decided that "Probate/Estate Case Files" would be considered a title, so I put that in quotation marks. I also decided to add the location of the originals as a comment in square brackets. Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks.