Online image of a document in an archival box

I have been pretty successful at finding citation examples in the book but I have hit a snag.  I have an online image at Ancestry that was originally in the AL Dept of Archives and History, Alabama Surname Files; Box or Film Number :M84.0085. I think my Source List Entry is good to go but once I hit the 1st Reference I got stuck.  Here's what I have so far:

Source List Entry

Ancestry.com Operations, Inc. "Alabama, U.S., Surname Files Expanded, 1702-1981." Database. Ancestry.com. [https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61266/images/41904_539938-00584?pId=99426] : 2021.

1st Reference

1. Ancestry.com Operations, Inc, "Alabama, U.S., Surname Files Expanded, 1702-1981," database, Ancestry.com (https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61266/images/41904_539938-00584?pId=99426 ; access 22 Jun 2021), entry for Fred Watson (1915-1991), citing Alabama Department of Archives and History, Alabama Surname Files, Box or Film Number M84.0085.

2nd Reference

11. Ancestry.com Operations, Inc, "Alabama, U.S., Surname Files Expanded, 1702-1981," database image for Fred Watson (1915-1991).

Here is the source information from Ancestry

Source Citation

Alabama Department of Archives and History; Montgomery, AL; Alabama Surname Files; Box or Film Number: M84.0085

Source Information

Ancestry.com. Alabama, U.S., Surname Files Expanded, 1702–1981 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc.

Original data:

Alabama Department of Archives and History. Public Information Subject Files—Surname files, 1901-1984 available via microfilm in reference, SG002624-2652 and 13361-13362, containing the materials added from 1984-2005. Alabama Department of Archives and History, Montgomery, Alabama.

Any feedback would be appreciated.  

Thanks,

Petty Shackleford

Submitted byEEon Wed, 06/23/2021 - 10:15

Welcome to EE, Petty!  

You’re off to a great start. As you expected, EE would make a few tweaks:

Source List Entry

Ancestry.com Operations, Inc. "Alabama, U.S., Surname Files Expanded, 1702-1981." Database. Ancestry.com. https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61266/images/41904_539938-00584?pId=99426 : 2021

First Reference Note

          1. Ancestry.com Operations, Inc, "Alabama, U.S., Surname Files Expanded, 1702-1981," database, Ancestry.com (https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61266/images/41904_539938-00584?pId=99426 ; access 22 Jun 2021), entry for biography, Fred Watson (1915-1991); citing Alabama Department of Archives and History, Alabama Surname Files, "Box or Film Number" M84.0085.

Subseqent Reference Note

11. Ancestry.com Operations, Inc, "Alabama, U.S., Surname Files Expanded, 1702-1981," database image for Fred Watson (1915-1991).

As explanations:

Identity of Website Creator

EE 6.48:  If the name of the website’s creator is different from the website’s name, the creator should be identified. [If]  the database creator is the agency itself and the agency’s name is replicated in the website name; it would be superfluous to cite that agency again as the creator.

Also, in this particular case, Ancestry’s website title is no longer Ancestry.com.  The dot-com was dropped several years ago.

 

Citing Publishers

EE 12.1: Suffixes that denote the kind of company, such as Inc. and Ltd., are commonly dropped.

 

Use of Square Editorial Brackets [ ] around URLs

You’ll notice that I’ve dropped these from your Source List Entry.  EE 2.58 “Braces & Brackets” lays out the standard rules for the use of those square editorial brackets. As you'll see there, brackets (square vs. angle), braces, and parentheses all signify different things—not just within Evidence Style citations but in the research-writing world in general.

In brief, those square brackets mean that we—as researchers, writers, or editors—are adding something into a quote or a transcription that is not in the original.  When we, ourselves, create a citation, we are creating an original. We are not quoting or transcribing. Thus we would not use editorial brackets. 

You’ll also note in EE that brackets are never used around URLs.  In Reference Notes, URLs are placed in parentheses because, in ref notes, parentheses always appear around the publication place and date. With print materials, the place of publication will be a city. With online materials, the place of publication is the URL.

 

Separation of Layers

In the First Reference note, you have two “layers.”  In Layer 1 you are citing your source: the database, the website provider, and the precise card from which you are taking data. In Layer 2, you report what your provider cites as its own source. We separate those two layers with a semi-colon.  The QuickStart Guide tipped into the front of EE demonstrates the basics for creating layers. EE 2.74 “Semicolons” goes into considerably more detail about the use of  semicolons, especially the section “Separating the Source from Its Source.”

 

Quoting Our Provider in the "Citing" Layer

You'll notice that I added quotation marks around the words "Box or Film Number." This is not a standing rule for citations. This falls under the category of thoughtfully considering what might confuse our own readers. Normally, if we've used a roll of film we would say "film number xxx." If we use a box of records and it has an archival number, we would say "box number xxx." If we copy Ancestry's generic reference to "box or film," thoughtful readers would wonder: Well, which is it? Why are you saying "this-or-that"?  So, to be proactive, we put quotation marks around phrasing we are copying exactly from Ancestry, that would puzzle our readers.

 

Identity of Specific Item

You'll notice in the First Reference Note that I changed the word "entry" to "biography." Because that collection is a hodgepodge of all sorts of things, it would be helpful to your readers (and yourself at a later date) to identify exactly what that specific item is.

One further question: Did you intend to cite the database entry in the First Reference Note and then cite the image in the Subsequent Note?   The database entry is the extract or descriptive entry that is created by the database itself.  That's something radically different from the actual image. In citing website databases, we differentiate between the two because the image itself carries far more credibility than the database entry that not only could be misread by the data-entry clerk but also, usually, omits or rearranges significant details.

I appreciate your response and all the good information.  I am using the book (3rd edition) and trying to make things fit the categories and it can be very confusing.

Questions/Comments about your response:

Separation of Layers - I am not quite understanding what you are talking about here.  I am not sure I meant to create "layers" when I wrote the 1st Reference.  Is the part after the semi-colon needed?  If not then I will leave it out.

One further question: There is an image of the document and I am assuming that is what I need to reference.  I think this is where I get the most confused with online sites like Ancestry.  Am I referencing Ancestry as the source or the record/image that Ancestry had made available.

I was just appointed to the Board of my local historical society which means I am the librarian/genealogist.  I am working on my first project and I want it to look good.  I also plan to start the certification process in the Fall and this is the part that worries me the most.  I always had trouble with this in school too.

I am extremely happy that one of my online classes referenced this cite because I think this will be an enormous help.  Thanks for the assistance.