Newspapers.com citations

Linda, again, two issues seem to be your stumbling blocks:

1. Why are you using the phrase "cited at ..." for Newspapers Publisher Extra?  Isn't that where your image is coming from? Newspapers Publisher Extra provides the image. It does not just "cite" the image. Ancestry only provides a link to Newspapers Publisher Extra.

2. In the Ancestry layer, you preface the name of the website with "database with images" but you've cited no database. That's an incongruity that tells you something's off-kilter.

While we're at it, I might add two other points:

3. The names of these two websites do not carry .com as part of the website title.

4. Any time we're citing two different websites and two different URLs in the same citation sentence, we have a problem we need to reconsider. (This points back to the problem at Point 2.)

Linda, see the comment in the message above about citing the specific URL for the newspaper or the page of interest.  

Re the "Newspapers.com by Ancestry," I need the specific URL too see what you are seeing. When I followed your specific URL last night, which you said you accessed through Ancestry, that phrase did not appear in the top left corner.   It would also help if you provided a link to the Ancestry page that redirected you to newspapers.com.

One final question. Your First Reference Note now ends with

Historical Newspaper from 1700s-2000s.

Where does that phrase come from and why do you think it's needed? The fact that you capitalized Historical and Newspapers, neither of which would normally be capitalized in a sentence, suggests you are quoting something; if so then the words need to be in quotation marks. (EE 2.6)  But the bigger question is: How does this help your reader (or you, at a later date, when your recollection of the source goes cold) locate the source or better understand it?

Linda, thanks for your long and thoughtful reply. Each of your points is instructive. I’ll quote each passage and then respond.

“If I just type newspapers.com in the internet search bar the page that shows up says "Newspapers.com by Ancestry" in the top left corner.  I typed in Nora I. Churchman in the keyword search and it connected me to a list of records.  The top listing is the record I am trying to cite here.  When I open that record, the page that shows up says "Newspapers+ Publisher Extra" in the top left, the footer on all pages says "Newspapers.com by Ancestry". This is one of the reasons why I am confused.”

You definitely have every right to be confused! Personally, I usually log into the site using the automatic Ancestry log-in option so I don't have to look up another password. Ergo, I had missed the discrepancy between the landing page and the newer branding "Newspapers Publisher Extra" that appears on every page where I find an item of interest. Thanks for flagging this for me.  We  have at least two takeaways from this:

1. The designers of the “Newspapers.com by Ancestry” website definitely do not understand the needs of researchers who use their site.
2. Given the discrepancy, there is justification for using whichever “website title” we choose.

“Regarding your final question, I used the example on pages 808 and 809 in "Evidence Explained", 2nd edition.  The very last sentence in the First Reference Note says: Historical Newspaper Collection.  I felt that I should follow that example, so when I looked to see if the description said Historical Newspaper Collection, I couldn't find that term, but I did find: Historical Newspaper from 1700s-2000s as a description of this collection. So I used that phrase.

Ah, yes. The changes that constantly occur on our major sites—structural changes, reorganization of collections, etc.—also wreak havoc upon the durability of our citations. The current structure of Ancestry’s site makes the inclusion of that phrase pointless.

All of which is why EE encourages users to not just copy models, but (after learning the basic principles from Chapters 1 and 2):

1. Use the models to identify the essential elements for a particular type of source

2. Thoughtfully analyze the source at hand to identify the basic pieces of information needed for those essential fields;

3. Adapt the examples to fit the situation at hand.

Regarding the full URL - It has been stated before, that if you use the full link to the citation, you don't necessarily need to include the other information like page, column, at least I think so.  So, since I have the pertinent information needed to find the article, I didn't want to be redundant.  Again, I followed the example at the top of page 809 and it didn't show the full link, but I did cite a page, column, title, and author of the article listed.

The advisability of citing exact URLs also stems from the growth of the mega sites. Your https://www.newspapers.com/image/63759640/?terms=nora%20i%20churchman&match=1 URL does make it much easier for users of your citation to locate the record.

The original problems with using long URLs still exists:

• the likelihood of an error occurring while retyping it into our research notes or (if we did a cut-and-paste) the likelihood of accidentally deleting a character in the process of editing fonts and spacing—thereby making the URL unusable.

• The likelihood of link-rot resulting from changes in the website.

However, the approach you’ve used in the message “Hello, If I Just Type …” eliminates these two concerns because you have fully identified the newspaper item. If or when the very helpful long URL goes bad, then the newspaper item can still be located.

With regard to the Source List Entry and Subsequent Note in this message (and in the follow-up message “Made One More Small Change”): well done.  Your “one small change” was the substitution of the term “digital image” for “image copy.”  Either phrase is appropriate for the situation.

Glad to help, Linda. The short URL worked just fine. When I typed it into the browser, it went right to the Nora Churchman page.