Church Record book images

By niteowl1851 on Sun, 05/01/2022 - 15:52

Forums

Luckily for me, the 2 small churches in Indiana that my German emigrant ancestors attended still have their old record books (albeit, one of them took the pages out of the books when the history committee set about translating them for publication). Anyway, one of the churches had them on their website previously. My reference note ended up looking like this:

St. John's UCC (Vincennes, Indiana), St. John's Record Book 1 (1858-1893), irregularly numbered pages, sectional entries in chronological order, section: Deaths, entry 109, Maria Meier, 10 March 1878; digital images, St. John's UCC (http://stjohns_ucc.tripod.com/stjohnsuccbk1.htm : accessed 08 Feb. 2020) > photo 132.

However...

soon after that, later the same year actually, they changed their website completely including host and url and the images are no longer available through their new website. Sad.

I did contact them and luckily was put in contact with a member of their technology committee who sent me a USB key with ALL the pictures. Yay! And the images are the same. I know this because for the example above, Book 1, photo 132, entry 109...on the USB key there is a book 1 folder and photo 132 has the same entry for my great-grandaunt.

But, how to cite it now and for other entries going forward? Does it stay substantially the same until you get to the URL area? Would the following work?

St. John's United Church of Christ (Vincennes, Indiana), St. John's Record Book 1 (1858-1893), irregularly numbered pages, sectional entries in chronological order, section: Deaths, entry 109, Maria Meier, 10 March 1878; digital images, St. John's UCC, images provided via USB key by [name of member, Technology Committee] in August 2020, Book 1 > photo 132.

Can I remove the second "St. John's UCC" (the one in italics)?

For what it is worth, they are currently St. John's United Church of Christ. At the time of the records I am using, they were known as St. John’s Evangelical Church and/or German Evangelical St. John’s Church. So the "St. John's" at least has been consistent since 1849.

The current church website is: https://www.myucc.org/ but again, the photos of the old record books are not present.

Submitted byEEon Sun, 05/01/2022 - 18:40

Ah, technology presents us with new conundrums. That said, is there really a difference between a batch of church records supplied to us as, say, photocopies versus all the images being put on a thumb drive?

EE 7.19 and 7.20 addresses those images sent to us that are not online. You've done well in adapting those examples. EE would nitpick just one point:

You've put St. John's UCC in italics, which is the convention used for citing a standalone publication such as a book or a website. When users of our citations see a name/title in italics, they look for the publication data so they can obtain their own copy. But your citation has no publication data because, if I understand you correctly, there is no actual publication. If not, why the italics? How about just

"; ... digital images provided via USB key by Harry Helpful, Technology Committee, St. John's CC, August 2020."

Given that you repeated "book 1" in the second layer, would we be correct in assuming that the thumb drive contained images from more than one book?
 

 

Submitted byniteowl1851on Sun, 05/01/2022 - 19:38

ah, yes, the italicized SJUCC was left over from the previous reference when it was "published" on the website. So no, there is no longer a publication.

Yes, the thumb drive contains 4 folders of images. There is a "record" book 1 and a book 2 for St. John's along with a book of annual congregation meetings. The 4th folder is the records of a smaller church that merged into St. John's.

So, do I include the folder name (stjohnsuccbk1) and the photo #, or, given the identification of the source in layer 1, exclude them?

In other words, 1 or 2?

1. St. John's United Church of Christ (Vincennes, Indiana), St. John's Record Book 1 (1858-1893), irregularly numbered pages, sectional entries in chronological order, section: Deaths, entry 109, Maria Meier, 10 March 1878; digital images provided via USB key by [name of member, Technology Committee], St. John's UCC, August 2020, folder stjohnsuccbk1 > photo 132.

2. St. John's United Church of Christ (Vincennes, Indiana), St. John's Record Book 1 (1858-1893), irregularly numbered pages, sectional entries in chronological order, section: Deaths, entry 109, Maria Meier, 10 March 1878; digital images provided via USB key by [name of member, Technology Committee], St. John's UCC, August 2020.

Submitted byEEon Mon, 05/02/2022 - 07:26

niteowl1851, without having the thumb drive in hand to see exactly how it's structured, I cannot tell you definitively how to handle that.  Based on what you describe, however, I'd definitely want to include the folder ID and image number in my own working notes.

Submitted byEEon Thu, 05/05/2022 - 08:43

What a beautiful record book! It triggers a couple of thoughts:

1. Given that it has a formal title stamped on the cover, EE would use that title. A translation or generic title would then go in brackets beside it at first citation. (EE 7.16)

2. Your citation cites "Deaths, entry 129," but the page itself is headed "Beerdigungen" (i.e., burials), which does carry a distinctly different meaning.  I note that the second image you posted is a short, typed "table of contents" of sort; and it labels that section "Deaths/Funerals," which would be Todesfälle/Begräbnisse, rather than "Beerdigungen."  I presume this list was created by the church; but church clerks do not always recognize the researcher's need for precision. Again, EE would use the actual section title, with the word translated in parens after first use.

These two points make a difference because your citation implies that the book is a "plain ol' English" register. Using the German title and section title, with translations, alerts the reader to the fact that the information you are asserting is your translation from the German.

It is kind of beautiful, isn't it? Especially for all the information inside! I'm considering trying my hand at an article based on a connection I was able to make using church records from this church and a sister church nearby. Anyway...

Thanks very much for chiming in with your thoughts. I admit to being a little torn on what to use.  The stamped cover doesn't reference that it is St. John's whereas the handwritten title page does. The typewritten title page was down by the church or a church member at the time of scanning/photography (done around 2014 I believe).

For what it is worth, book 2 does not have an engraving on the front and does not have a handwritten title page. It only has a similar typewritten page labeled "St John's Record Book 2: 1894-1959". There may possibly be an engraving on the spine, but it is not pictured. There is a handwritten table of contents in book 2 on pg. 1 which corresponds to the typewritten table of contents but with German labels.

So I have been taking another look. I said above I was torn on whether to go with the inscribed cover or the inner handwritten page for the title. Since I am already referencing it as belonging to St. John's, the cover inscription is at least shorter!

But I do end up with a question:

Cover Title: Evangelische Kirchen Ordnung

Cover translation: Evangelical church order

typewritten table of contents by church: St. John's Record Book 1: 1858-1893

So, the translation of the foreign language title would go in parentheses directly after the title, which gives me: "Evangelische Kirchen Ordnung" (Evangelical church order). But I'm struggling with how to include that this is book 1 for 1858-1893 since a book 2 does exist and since the existence of multiple books is relevant to the path of the images on the key.

Instead of including the actual translation in parentheses, could I leave it "untranslated" but include in editorial brackets [Book 1, 1858-1893], so: "Evangelische Kirchen Ordnung" [Book 1: 1858-1893].

That gives me, when all is said and done (and I've gone back to including folder and photo id), this:

St. John's UCC (Vincennes, Indiana), "Evangelische Kirchen Ordnung" [Record Book 1: 1858-1893], irregularly numbered pages, sectional entries in chronological order, section: Beerdigungen (Funerals), entry 109, Maria Meier, 10 March 1878; digital images provided via USB key by Harry Helpful, Technology Committee, St. John's UCC, August 2020 > stjohnsuccbk1 > 000132.jpg.

Submitted byEEon Mon, 05/23/2022 - 09:07

An afterthought, niteowl1851 ...

The details in your last layer, I suspect, would confuse someone who had not read the background information, because of the sequence and the lack of what is now the usual context.  Two issues might be considered here.

  • Normally, when we use the > to mark waypoints along a path, we do so with a URL at which the landing page gives us pull-down menus to choose from.  In this case, we don't have a URL to start from.
  • When we use the >, it's in a context of a path, as in  URL > this file > that file > specific image.  In this case, the entity before the first > is a date; but from your background discussion, I'm surmising that the date "August 2020" is not on the thumb drive, it's the date the thumb drive was supplied to you.

To clarify, how about this:

...; images provided August 2020 by Harry Helpful, Technology Committee, St. John's UCC August 2020 via USB key > file: stjohnsuccbk1 > image 00132.jpg. 

This moves the citation from the key to the file for that volume, to the image.

Submitted byniteowl1851on Mon, 05/23/2022 - 09:50

hmm...I see the point. instead of "file:" and "image:" shouldn't it be "folder" and "file"? such as:

; images provided by Harry Helpful, Technology Committee, St. John's UCC in August 2020 via USB key, folder: stjohnsuccbk1, file: 00132.jpg.

Alternately, maybe just use standard slashes used in regular pc folder structures?

; images provided by Harry Helpful, Technology Committee, St. John's UCC in August 2020 via USB key\stjohnsuccbk1\00132.jpg.

 

 

and I just realized I used commas instead of > in the first example. So instead of commas:

; images provided by Harry Helpful, Technology Committee, St. John's UCC in August 2020 via USB key > folder: stjohnsuccbk1 > file: 00132.jpg.

Submitted byEEon Wed, 06/08/2022 - 08:49

Niteowl1851, always choose the wording that you think best describes what you're dealing with. Certainly, with the thumb drive in hand, you can far better see and understand what you're working with than someone with no access to explore and compare.