FamilySearch website layer

By Hendrickson on Tue, 06/25/2024 - 16:36

Forums

The FamilySearch full-text search feature has been incredibly helpful, revealing many records I might have otherwise missed. I came across a deed that isn't found by searching and would require browsing over 750 pages to find. I have some questions about citing the website layer, using 9.40 and template 10 as references.

Based on those guidelines, my citation layers look something like this:

Suffolk County, New York, Deed Book N: 216-219, quitclaim between Silas Hendrickson and wife Maria, Daniel Whitney and wife Nancy, Jesse Ketchum and wife Abigail, Henry Conklin and wife Sabriana, Woodhull Smith and wife Ruth, Scudder Valentine, Deborah Valentine, David Valentine to Carll Valentine, 1 June 1830

; imaged, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99WY-2GLV?view=explore : viewed 25 June 2025) > image group number 007191742 >  images 129-130 of 753

; citing Suffolk County Clerk’s Office, Riverhead, New York.

On the right panel, under Group Data it tells us it is part of 2 collections.

Questions:

Hoping you can help me clarify a few things so I can approach the citation correctly

1. Am I missing something if I don’t cite the catalog collection?

That said, if I click the catalog collection it takes me to” Deeds and Index 1660 – 1926”, which then brings me to another page where you must find the correct image group/film number. If I click on the historical record collection, it has a searchable database, but again I cannot locate this deed through search. 

2. Finally if I run a search using the image group number I get a “No results” page. So I wonder if there is a purpose to using it in the citation?

The only saving grace is the URL, which will take the user to the correct page.

Thanks!

Submitted byEEon Thu, 06/27/2024 - 09:16

Hendrickson, the fact that FamilySearch now has several ways of accessing specific records—through catalog search, through index-search, through FamilySearch Labs, etc.—can be confusing. In all cases of confusion, it's helpful to think back to basic principles. In this case, two longstanding citation principles do help us.

  1. We cite what we use.
  2. When we create a citation with a specific URL, ARK, PAL, and/or path, we go to a different browser (where our just-found image is not cached) and try out that citation to make sure it works.

In answer to your two questions:

Q1. Am I missing something if I don't cite the catalog collection?

Answer: See the first bullet above.

Q2. If I run a search using the image group number I get a “No results” page. So I wonder if there is a purpose to using it in the citation?

Answer: The URL you cite does not display an image group number.  As you can see in the image below, it uses a database title (”United States, New York Land Records, 1630–1975”), an ARK, two waypoints ("Suffolk" and "Deeds 1829-1830 vol N"), and an image number. So that would be what you cite.

 

If you access the same document via the FamilySearch catalog (full path: FamilySearch.org > Search > Catalog > Place: New York, Suffolk County > Land and Property > Deeds and index, 1660-1926 > Deeds v. N ca1829-1830, Image Group Number 7191653 > camera icon, image 129), then you do indeed have an image group number displayed:

 

If we use the catalog to access the film, then that’s what we cite. If we use the database, then that's what we cite. One produces a longer citation, one produces a shorter one:

  • FamilySearch (URL: date) > IGN no. > image number
  • “Long Database Title with Dates,” FamilySearch (URL : date) > Waypoint > Waypoint > Image number.  

Evidence Style citations for these options (with coloration to distinguish each layer) would be:

          EMPHASIS ON DOCUMENT / CITING DATABASE:

Suffolk Co., NY,  Deeds 1829-1830, vol. N: 216–19; imaged, “United States, New York Land Records, 1630–1975,” database with images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/2078654 : accessed 27 June 2024) > Suffolk > Deeds 1829-1830 vol N > images 129–30.

EMPHASIS ON DOCUMENT / CITING IMAGE GROUP NUMBER:

Suffolk Co., NY,  Deeds 1829-1830, vol. N: 216–19; imaged,  FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9WY-2K1Q : accessed 27 June 2024)> IGN 7191742 > images 129–30.

          EMPHASIS ON DATABASE (USE WHEN WE HAVE MANY TO CITE FROM THAT DATABASE):

“United States, New York Land Records, 1630–1975,” database with images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/2078654 : accessed 27 June 2024) > Suffolk > Deeds 1829-1830 vol N > images 129–30, being pages 216–19.

None of these, you’ll note, cites the specific URL. You can, if you wish. However, with legal documents such as the one you are citing, there are usually multiple specific URLs involved because each frame has a different specific URL. In these cases, EE (specifically: EE4 2.35 Online Addresses: URLs, ARKs, PALs, Paths & Waypoints and EE4 3.16 "Sequence of Layers: Online Images) suggests:

  • When citing to the database: use the URL for the database itself, then cite the path and all image numbers.
  • When citing to the IGN for the film: use the URL for the film's ID (usually the first frame), then cite the IGN and the exact image numbers.

Your second question also involves another issue. You state:

Q2.  If I run a search using the image group number I get a “No results” page. So I wonder if there is a purpose to using it in the citation?

Answer: Where are you running that search for the image group number? Is it possible that you are mixing these three options?

  • If we run a search for image group number in the query box for database titles, we will not get a hit because that is a search engine for database titles.
  • If we run a search for image group number in the query box for catalog entries, then image group number is a query option (see the image below)
  • If we run a search for database title in the query box for catalog entries, then we will not get a hit because that is the search engine for the catalog.

You will also note, in the three Evidence Style citations above, two things:

  1. We do not have to cite the key parties involved. All relevant details from the document go into our transcript, abstract, or extract (at note-taking stage) or our narrative (at writing/publication stage). A citation to the source focuses upon the source itself, i.e. what is needed to (a) relocate the source; or (b) evaluate the source.  (EE4 9.8 Citing Key Parties in the record)
  2. We do not have to cite the date unless (a) the title of the cited volume does not include a date range; or (b) the date of the document is outside the time fame stated in the title of the volume, thereby causing doubt as to whether the document is cited correctly.

Under this basic principle (followed by almost all citation styles) we cite individuals named in a deed only our narrative discusses something that would not be explicitly connected to the attached citation.  (EE 9.41, discussion at top of p. 366).  The issue of citing dates is discussed in various examples, as with 9.42 "Citing Registers with Unusual Date Spans."

That said, if you wish to include parties and dates in your citation, even though they are given in the text, you certainly can do so in your working notes. (In our working notes, we can include anything we want. Then, at publication stage, we or our editor would remove the extraneous or duplicative details.) If you wish to identify parties in your note, rather than naming all 14 individuals, a more practical citation would be this:

Suffolk Co., NY,  Deeds 1829–1830, vol. N: 216–19, Valentine heirs to Valentine; imaged, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9WY-2K1Q : accessed 27 June 2024)> IGN 7191742 > images 129–30.

 

Submitted byHendricksonon Thu, 06/27/2024 - 14:29

All points noted, thank you.  I am still in the note taking stage and appreciate the tips. I can certainly use the example provided.

But in the spirit of “cite what you use, ” that isn’t where I came in. It appears that you may have a different view than I do when using URL that I posted in the citation. I only get that view if I truncate the URL to just after the question mark. I got the URL from the right panel under group data in the suggested citation.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99WY-2GLV?view=explore

full-text search page

Given your feedback though I have tried to reconstruct the citation with just a minor change. The book itself does not give a date range, nor does the target. But FamilySearch tells us that - is it  still enough not to include the date?

Suffolk Co., NY,  Deeds 1829–1830, vol. N: 216–19, Valentine heirs to Valentine; imaged, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99WY-2GLV?view=explore: accessed 27 June 2024) > images 129–30. IGN 7191742.

 

 

Submitted byEEon Fri, 06/28/2024 - 09:47

Hendrickson, if you use the longer URL, then you are using the URL associated with the named database and its path and waypoints. Your citation would then need to include that named database and its path and waypoints.  

If we take pieces of data from Approach 1 (access through the database) and mix it into Approach 2 (access via the film number), while leaving out pieces of data from both, then we don't have sufficient details for either approach. 

From your citation, we can use the URL to go directly to the page. However, if a typo occurs in your URL, at some point amid cutting-pasting or in future editing, by you or someone who uses your citation, then you won't have sufficient details to relocate the image.

Think of it this way: parentheses contain "parenthetical information." By definition "parenthetical information" is information that further describes something, but could be omitted. If that parenthetical URL were omitted, you'd be citing FamilySearch > image 129-30. But FamilySearch has many image groups with images 129-30.  Above, you do add the specific image group in a separate sentence after the image numbers. But the IGN is not a standalone item and the sequence is backward. After we go to FamilySearch (more precisely, FamilySearch.org), we have to locate the Image Group Number 191742 before we can access the specific images. The path we take is FamilySearch.org > IGN 191742 > images 129-30.