Online Newspapers that were once Print

By Anonymous on Thu, 03/27/2014 - 20:44

Forums

Hi,

I need to cite various newspaper articles that appear on the Australian website Trove among their newspapers section -  - all of these papers were orignally printed, and have in recent years been scanned from the orginal papers or digitised from microfilm records and made available online.

Trove very helpfully provides a variety of ready-made citations and I've been using those, but I am wondering if those are the most ideal citation to use in the situation, or if there is something better.

One of those articles can be found at
<blockquote> MRS. ELIZA LONG. (1926, April 10). The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842 - 1954), p. 17. Retrieved March 28, 2014, from http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article28059963 </blockquote>
(Trove's APA formatted citation)
This however, results in my reports having the citation formatted as
<blockquote> Newspaper Article, MRS. ELIZA LONG. (1926, April 10). The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842 - 1954), p. 17. Retrieved January 26, 2014, from http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article28059963.  Cit. Date: 26 Jan 2014. </blockquote>
(I used a basic source and called it "Newspaper Article" when I first started)

If I was to enter this same article into Legacy 8 using EE's Newspapers > Print editions (microfilm or original), then my citation reads
<blockquote> "Mrs Eliza Long," (Sydney) The Sydney Morning Herald, 10 April 1926, p. 17, col. 8. Cit. Date: 28 Mar 2014. </blockquote>
with no mention of when I found the article, only the date I've cited it, and no mention of where I located it so that others could check for themselves, or so that I could go back to the source if I needed to.

Is there a more appropriate EE citation I should be using for this kind of newspaper article?

Thanks

Submitted byEEon Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:11

PK-KTK:

Let's clarify one basic point: Where will you be using this citation? The website suggestion is formatted for use in a basic list of sources. From your explanation, it appears that you need a reference note (footnote or endnote) for use within your narrative or your compilation. Yes? No?

Submitted byPK-KTKon Fri, 03/28/2014 - 19:56

All of the newspaper articles that I've found and recorded so far have supplied new evidence or clarified suspected evidence, so they primarily need to be recorded as sources of information in my own database, and for when I do share basic raw data with fellow genealogists.

Whether they get used as footnotes or endnotes as well, will depend on if I compile an automatic narrative from Legacy or not, but generally when writing the story of someone's life or an event, I don't use the sources in that context, just compile them all together at the end of the document - the family who reads them get confused with "all those little numbers".

Submitted byEEon Fri, 03/28/2014 - 21:14

PK-KTK:

Using endnotes is a well-established and time-honored practice, so long as each assertion in your narrative or your database is keyed to the exact source that supports the assertion. For this, you would need to use reference notes. Bibliographies (aka source lists) are principally used as an appendix in books—as an  alphabetized, quick-reference to all the sources that are cited across hundreds or even thousands of reference notes.

With all this in mind, the principal problem with the citations you have copied from the online source is that they are bibliographic style, not reference-note style. Even in your genealogical software, your templates will call for you to enter data for both formats. Genealogists, today, are indeed sticklers for citations that point explicitly to the source of an assertion and provide enough data for a basic evaluation of that source. Because of this—and because of the exceedingly great number of sources that they use—reference notes are the standard format used by genealogists.

To convert those bibliographic entries provided by the archives to reference-style notes, one basic principle needs to be kept in mind:

  • Reference notes are numbered and written "sentence style." This means that all the identifying details for a source are written in one "sentence" with a period at the end. There are no internal periods. This is important for clarity. A complicated source can appear to be multiple sources, if parts are separated by periods. A reference note may cite any number of sources—whatever is needed to support the assertion in your text (or your database).
  • Bibliographic (source-list) entries are written "paragraph style," using and a period between each element, and a hanging indent that makes it easier to spot the first word—that word or name being the element by which the entries are alphabetized. Because authors' names are inverted—as in Smith, John—other elements are not linked by commas. Each element of a bibliographic entry is separated by periods. No confusion results because, as just stated, only one source appears in each "paragraph" of a source-list entry.

There are many reasons why these practices are standard for historical research. EE explains them in some detail, starting with EE 2.38 in the chapter "Fundamentals of Citation."  EE's Chapter 14, "Periodicals," also offers many newspaper examples, and explains a host of quirks we deal with in using them.

Submitted byPK-KTKon Fri, 03/28/2014 - 22:06

I understand all of that, what I don't understand though, is which newspaper citation format is going to work best and provide all of the relevant details needed given the source of the information. I've read chapter 14 twice now and I think I have tried each of the templates, but still can't find one that provides everything I need included, since I at least, need to be able to go back to these newspaper articles at any time to continue to transcribe them - or check adjacent editions that may not be digitally available at this point in time for additional information - I therefore need those urls included in the sources / citations - and those urls are needed to comply with your statement of:

Using endnotes is a well-established and time-honored practice, so long as each assertion in your narrative or your database is keyed to the exact source that supports the assertion.

The source that supports the assertion being the newspaper article - if I don't tell people where I found it, how are they going to know where or how to find it to verify for themselves that I have come to the correct conclusions?

 

Just as a side note, the primary audience of any story I compile from the data is always likely to be non-genealogist non-university educated family members, the use of endnotes and footnotes within the story do need to be kept for those "stage whispers" of data that while relevant, don't necessarily add to the storyline. Having the narrative filled with dozens of superscript numbers has put off family members from reading the stories in the past - the feedback has been "what are these tiny numbers, they don't make any sense", and the story wasn't read completely.
When I re-printed the same story, and didn't include all of the endnote reference numbers, just having a bibliography, the feedback was been more along the lines of "wow, great story, and I can see you've done a lot of research too, well done". If I want to get the next generation interested to keep on with the research after I eventually pop-off, then I need to get them to read the stories to start with.

I can understand that if I was to become a qualified and certified genealogist and researcher then I'll need to adjust probably 70% of my current citations, and that's why right now I am working through them all to get them all up to at least a basic consistent standard so that if I ever come across someone who needs a report with properly formatted citations attached to each fact, then they are all at least consistent. Far too many beginner-related errors in a lot of my sources. I'm opting to use EE because it's the benchmark for so many people and means I'll conform to the accepted standards, but I still have to be aware of the logical likely audience of my research.

Submitted byEEon Sat, 03/29/2014 - 13:19

PK-KTK:

Ah, yes, the old debate about those wee little numbers. It's been a while since we've heard it.

Going back to your original message, at its end you proposed a citation using Legacy's template called "Newspapers > Print editions (microfilm or original)." Bear in mind that these are Legacy's interpretations of EE. The example you give (after we strip away the "<blockquote>" comments that we're a bit puzzled over, given that block quotations aren't a citation issue) would be this:

"Mrs Eliza Long," (Sydney) The Sydney Morning Herald, 10 April 1926, p. 17, col. 8. Cit. Date: 28 Mar 2014.

EE's own citation to that article, following EE 14.22 (or the QuickCheck Model on p. 785), would be simply this:

"Mrs. Eliza Long," Sydney Morning Herald, 10 April 1926, p. 17, col. 8.

Four comments here:

  • The title of the newspaper should be italicized.
  • The place of a newspaper's publication does not have to be added parenthetically when that place is part of the newspaper's title.
  • Most style guides also follow the custom of dropping "The" at the start of a title.
  • By “Cit. Date: 28 March 2014, we assume you mean “citation date.” However, “citation date” is not a common expectation in citations.

You are right about all the reasons why we should also identify our online source, when we cite a digitized newspaper. That example is also given at 14.22 in the “Newspapers (Online Images)” example that straddles pp. 808-9.

 

Submitted byPK-KTKon Sun, 03/30/2014 - 01:33

the <blockquote> HTML tags were supposed to indent the text they surrounded, but they didn't work and I couldn't edit them out once I had posted - nothing more than that for those.

Repsonse to your four comments

  • on my screen and in the reports, the newspaper title is italicised, it just didn't copy/paste as that
  • the (parenthesis) were added by Legacy using the EE model
  • does the dropping of the "The" in a title also happen when the "The" is specifically a part of the title of the newspaper - it's not "Sydney Morning Herald" it is "The Sydney Morning Herald"
  • Cit. Date - yes, that is citation date - and that's what Legacy put there.

Using Newspapers > Online Images (issued by unrelated content provider) - which is what these are; the citation now becomes

"Mrs Eliza Long," The Sydney Morning Herald, 10 April 1926, p. 17, col. 8; digital images(http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article28059963 : accessed 26 Jan 2014).

I can live with that citation, it gives me everything I think I or anyone else would need to locate it again. (and yes, the newspaper title is italicised in my Legacy citation, it just hasn't copied over)

If I was citing an article that had a by-line I would of course include the Author's details, but this one does not have that, and since the URL leads directly to the article itself, not the newspaper or website in general, there is no need for me to put anything into the "Collection" spot in the Legacy SourceWriter. Not sure what I'd need to put (if anything) in the Website title though.

Thanks for the help - now I can get on with standardising all my newspaper citations

Submitted byEEon Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:01

PK-KTK:

Looking good! EE also recommends including the identity of the website, not just the URL. By doing so, we (a) respect the premise of giving credit where due; and (b) help to ensure locatability at a later date in case a typo is made in the URL or if the URL becomes a broken link. Not essential, but helpful, would be to note in the "specific item" field the fact that this newspaper article is an obituary.

"Mrs Eliza Long," Sydney Morning Herald, 10 April 1926, p. 17, col. 8, obituary; digital images, National Library of Australia, Trove (http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article28059963 : accessed 26 Jan. 2014).

With regard to the necessity for including The in the title, this is one of the areas in which EE follows the style guidelines of the U.S.'s major style guide for researchers: Chicago Manual of Style (16th ed.) 8.168:

When newspapers and periodicals are mentioned in text, an initial the, even if part of the official title, is lower-cased (unless it begins a sentence) and not italicized. ... In citation form, an initial the is dropped from periodical titles... .

Most English-language style guides follow this same principal. Similarly, when titles are indexed, all titles that begin with The are actually indexed under the second word.

Submitted byPK-KTKon Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:28

Thanks, I've looked at Legacy's SourceWriter template again for Newspapers > Online images (issued by unrelated content provider), and I can't see a "specific item" field, and if I put the National Library of Australia, Trove in the "Website Title" field, I get

"Mrs Eliza Long," The Sydney Morning Herald, 10 April 1926, p. 17, col. 8; digital images, National Library of Australia, Trove (http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article28059963 : accessed 26 Jan 2014).

 

I guess in regards to the "The" in the title of the paper, I'm probably just a stick in the mud, I'd rather put it exactly as it was printed, rather than drop the extra word - primarily to save confusion later on, but also because there are some papers who have changed their name by a single word: The Moreton Bay Courier became The Courier, then the Brisbane Courier and to this day, The Courier-Mail.
I'm going to be citing at least three of those at some point and people even today refer to this paper in verbal terms simply as Courier - "you got today's Courier yet?" - yet it has been "The Courier Mail" since 1933.

Thanks again for your help.

Submitted byEEon Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:22

Dear Stick-in-the-Mud:

Despite what we hear from all quarters about the Citation Police, do feel free to just go right ahead and include that word The wherever you feel it's needed for clarity.  No one will take away your license to do research--or to adapt citations to the situation at hand. :)

 

Submitted byPK-KTKon Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:33

Thanks for giggle - and all the help and advice, much appreciated

- sincerely, Stick-in-the-Mud

Submitted byRobyn_62on Sun, 10/02/2016 - 02:35

I was looking at the comments from PK-KTK and EE, and seem to have a similar dilemma.

I use the websites of both the National Library of Australia (TROVE) and also the National Library of New Zealand (Papers Past) for their newspaper content. Both of these websites contain 100's of 'different newspapers' from their respective countries.

To eliminate having a huge source list by listing every newspaper individually, I was wondering if what I have been doing, is actually suitable. Both sites provide stable URL's, so anyone following the citation can click on the URL and be taken to the exact page of the relevant newspaper and what is being cited.  

National Library of New Zealand, "Died," Wellington Independent, 22 October 1863, p. 2, col. 3, death notice for Mr H. W. Rotermund; digital images, Papers Past (http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WI18631022.2.7 : accessed 2 October 2016).

or

National Library of Australia, "MR. JAMES SOMERVILLE," The Sydney Morning Herald, 17 June 1926, p. 12, col. 1, obituary; digital images, Trove (http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16299475 : accessed 2 October 2016).

Just looking for some guidence once again.

 

I do realise that it should be Papers Past  and perhaps I should have used a different URL in my first citation : https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/wellington-independent/1863/10/22/2

Thank you

Submitted byEEon Sun, 10/02/2016 - 09:14

Robyn, as constructed, your citation tells us that the National Library of New Zealand publishes the Wellington Independent. I don't think you mean that. NLNZ is the author/creator of the website, so that element of your citation needs moving to the second layer in which  you are citing the website rather than the newspaper.

Submitted byrenlenson Wed, 08/09/2023 - 06:39

Dear EE,

I'm trying my hand at creating citations for articles and death notices found on Trove.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated. 

1) article

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13866748

Source List Entry

New South Wales. Sydney. The Sydney Morning Herald, 1842-1954.

First Reference Note

“Metropolitan District Court,” The Sydney ( New South Wales ) Morning Herald, 3 March 1892, p. 7, col. 3; image copy, National Library of Australia, Trove ( https://www.trove.nla.gov.au : accessed 9 August 2023), Newspapers & Gazettes.

2) death notice

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18120868

Source List Entry

New South Wales. Sydney. The Sydney Morning Herald, 1842-1954.

“Family Notices,” The Sydney ( New South Wales ) Morning Herald, 29 June 1949, p. 22, col. 2, death notice of James Henderson Grant; image copy, National Library of Australia, Trove ( https://www.trove.nla.gov.au : accessed 9 August 2023), Newspapers & Gazettes.

Thank you very much,

Renee

 

 

 

Hello, Renee. You've done an excellent job. EE would make just two tweaks:

1.  The National Library of Australia is the creator of the website Trove. The name of the creator should not be italicized—only the name of the website. This is analogous to citing a book: We italicize the title of the book but we do not italicize the name of the website.

2. In the publication block within parentheses, it would help your users and yourself if your "where published" information gave the direct URL rather than just the home page URL.

Dear EE,

Thank you very much for your reply. I did wonder about including the direct link to the article.

I have taken your advice and amended it as follows.

Source List Entry

New South Wales. Sydney. The Sydney Morning Herald, 1842-1954.

“Family Notices,” The Sydney ( New South Wales ) Morning Herald, 29 June 1949, p. 22, col. 2, death notice of James Henderson Grant; image copy, National Library of Australia, Trove ( https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18120868 : accessed 9 August 2023), Newspapers & Gazettes.

I'm lucky enough to have also found many interesting articles about my ancestors using " The British Newspaper Archive", including the below article describing how my 2nd great-grandfather received a wound to the neck from a jug-wielding woman. This site is different from Trove in that a subscription is needed to view the articles, does this change the way I construct the citation?

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/BL/0000914/18461226/032/0004

Source List Entry

Glamorgan. Cardiff. Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, Glamorgan, Monmouth, and Brecon Gazette, 1832-1874.

First Reference Note

“Serious charge of assault at Swansea,” Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, Glamorgan, Monmouth, and Brecon Gazette, 26 December 1846, p. 4, col. 3; image copy, British Library and Findmypast, The British Newspaper Archive ( https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/BL/0000914/18461226/032/0004 : accessed 9 August 2023).

I have gone back to the website and used the information in my citation to try and locate the article. In the search, I entered the name of the article, the publication place, the name of the newspaper, and the date but it did not work. I tried again without stating the publication place and it worked.

I, therefore have a question about the publication place. I googled Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, Glamorgan, Monmouth, and Brecon Gazette to find out where it was published because it is not apparent on the website. I then included Cardiff as the publication city and Glamorgan as the county in my citation. In the above Trove example, the publication city and state/county are obvious due to Trove providing the information in their ready-made citations. Can I leave out the publication city/county and simply state the name of the newspaper or include the country if I'm not sure of the publication city/county?   

Example 1

Source List Entry

Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, Glamorgan, Monmouth, and Brecon Gazette, 1832-1874.

First Reference Note

“Serious charge of assault at Swansea,” Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, Glamorgan, Monmouth, and Brecon Gazette, 26 December 1846, p. 4, col. 3; image copy, British Library and Findmypast, The British Newspaper Archive ( https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/BL/0000914/18461226/032/0004 : accessed 9 August 2023).

Example 2

Wales. Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, Glamorgan, Monmouth, and Brecon Gazette, 1832-1874.

First Reference Note

“Serious charge of assault at Swansea,” Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, Glamorgan, Monmouth, and Brecon Gazette, 26 December 1846, p. 4, col. 3; image copy, British Library and Findmypast, The British Newspaper Archive ( https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/BL/0000914/18461226/032/0004 : accessed 9 August 2023).

 

Thanks as always.

 

renlenson, I'm handicapped with this Cardiff example because an account is required to access the site. I cannot see why your URL does not take you exactly to the image. You state:

I have gone back to the website and used the information in my citation to try and locate the article. In the search, I entered the name of the article, the publication place, the name of the newspaper, and the date but it did not work. I tried again without stating the publication place and it worked.

I can't replicate that without an account and I can't examine the newspaper itself to see what place of publication it cites on its masthead. (Most newspapers do; from your description, this one seems to be an exception.)  When I Googled for the paper, I found this page from The National Library of Wales

Regarding the county, that does not need to be cited in a newspaper citation.  No one will fault you if you do, but it's not essential.

And again, you've done a great job.