German Records from Microfilm

I finally got a chance to review my first microfilm on German ancestors. Imagine my delight to find the birth records of all six children, in addition (sadly) to the deaths of four of the children. Now I'm struggling to write new citations. This is an example of just one of the many, using EE as a guide, 7.40 Germany, pp 358-359. Did I capture more than I needed? Or did I overlook something? (Line 1 is the title page of the microfilm)

Lippstadt, Germany, "Hellinghausen Katholische Gemeinde Kirchenburchduplikate," 1857 Geburtens [Births], np, line 10, Theodor Johannes Stratmann, [born] 3 February 1857, Herringhausen; FHL Microfilm 949,267, Salt Lake City, Utah.

 

Submitted byEEon Sun, 05/04/2014 - 10:52

Deb,

Using records created in another country or culture can be intimidating, but you've confronted it well and included almost everything needed.   EE might make a couple of tweaks.

(1) Your citation begins with the name of the town. You'll note at EE 7.40, the example begins with the name of the church. That's because the church was the creatir, not the town.

(2) The title of the register tells ust that it is not the original register but, instead, a duplicate. Where is this duplicate held? When GSU did the filming, they created a "target" which they filmed at the start of the roll (or the specific item on the roll) and that target will typically tell us the location of the record at the time the filming was done. In this case, FHL's cataloging also provides that data.

(3) "np," as its used above, is not a standard abbreviation. We suspect you mean it to mean unpaginated. But what page should one look for? Presumably (although not always), the records are in chronological order--in which case, what date in 1857 should one seek, given that births are not always recorded promptly?

 

 

Submitted byDeb Tuckeron Sun, 05/04/2014 - 16:54

EE,

Thank you for the assistance!

Thought I copied the target page of the microfilm, but now I'm not sure. It's the image of a small card with: Hellinghausen, Kr. Lippstadt, kath. Gem., KBD, P4.

The letters "GHT" are repeated with date ranges and, in parenthesis: Originalkirchenbucher im Pfarramt Hellinghausen, Dek. Geseke seit 1779; geordnet u. inventarisiert, which translates I think to: Original parish register at rectory in Hellinghausen, dean Geseke since 1799; [-geordnet?-] and inventory.

Going back to the library tomorrow to verify this. It's not the target image found on FHL microfilm.

The film is surprisingly easy to navigate, even for non-German speakers like me...it is chronological by year with Births, Marriages, Deaths/Burials, and consistent all the way through. Nearly all registers are no more than one or two pages; some years have more deaths than others.

 

Submitted byEEon Sun, 05/04/2014 - 20:30

Interesting. FHL's cataloging also tells us the location of the Duplikate you actually used. You would want to note that, of course, because transcribed "duplicates" often have differences from the original; but adding a known location for the original would certainly make your citation more useful.

Submitted byDeb Tuckeron Sun, 05/04/2014 - 20:58

I know, it's been frustrating. Googled "Catholic Churches, Lippstadt, Germany" hoping to find just one. There are two, which is amusing because each uses one of the key words in its title:

1. Kath. Kirchengemeinde St. Nicolai

2. Kath. Pfarrant St. Antonius

Can you believe it?

Deb,

You might also want to review the FHL cataloging data at its website FamilySearch. You'll find the catalog description for this roll of film at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/9652?availability=Family%20History%20Library. Note especially the statement:

"Mikrofilme aufgenommen von Manuskripten im Personenstandsrchiv Detmold."

Re, the two church names that "each uses one of the key words in its title."  If you are referring to the "Kath." part of the two church names, that is the abbreviation for Katholik. The Google editors are identifying the two churches generically as

1. Catholic church community (parish) of St. Nicolai

2. Catholic parish of St. Antonius.

Submitted byepischelon Mon, 05/05/2014 - 02:16

Hi

as I am a native German I might help.

Hellinghausen has its own parish "St. Clemens".

GHT means Geburten (births), Heiraten (Marriages) und Tote (Deaths).

I found this interesting document: Die Bestände des Nordrhein-Westfälischen Personenstandsarchivs Westfalen-Lippe bis 1874/75 [The holdings of the North Rhine-Westphalian archive of vital records  Westphalia-Lippe until 1874/75], 1991, Detmold, URL: http://bit.ly/Q580P6 (please don't beat me if this is not correct EE citation style ;-) )

In that document it says that the parish register duplicate were produced by the sexton of the parish (at least from 1815 onwards, it was a bit different during French occupation). The conformity of these duplicates with the original register had to be certified and sealed; the duplicates were finally leave for permanent storage to the competent judicial authorities. (page 6).

Hope that helps.

 

Submitted byEEon Mon, 05/05/2014 - 08:29

In reply to by epischel

Epischel,

Thank you for adding perspective to help others understand this set of records in particular and the broader process by which these duplicates were created.

 

Submitted byDeb Tuckeron Mon, 05/05/2014 - 08:35

epischel,

You are a genealogy angel...thank you so much. When one ventures into new territory, it is a bit overwhelming. You stare at the parish register and your mind thinks you SHOULD be able to read it because of the similarities that exist. Reviewing my copies, there is a seal and signature at the end of each GHT section for each and every year.

Now I can complete the ctation as well as refer to the archive records. I appreciate all the help ever so much. This is what I think it should look like:

St. Clemens Katholische Kirche (Hellinghausen, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany), "Hellinghausen Katholische Gemeinde Kirchenburchduplikate," 1857 Geburtens [Births], n.p. given, line 10, Theodor Johannes Stratmann, 3 February 1857, Herringhausen; FHL Microfilm 949,267.

 

Submitted byepischelon Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:33

In reply to by Deb Tucker

Deb,

you're welcome. I have learnt new stuff, too. That is the effect of following EE citation style: it makes you think, to look closer, to research and to learn.

 

Best wishes,

Erik

Submitted byDeb Tuckeron Mon, 05/05/2014 - 10:06

EE,

I am so grateful for this forum to assist us all. Thank you for all the input and feedback. It really, really helps.

Deb

Submitted byTamion Thu, 07/29/2021 - 09:02

I am struggling with a citation for an entry from a German Family Table record found at Ancestry. The original book is from the church of Bronnholzheim ad is in alphabetical sections; however, on Ancestry it is combined with three other church districts. Then after investigating it a bit further I discovered that Ancestry used a microfilm from FamilySearch. FamilySearch gave more information regarding the record. Here is what I have written for my citation. I believe I have the first two layers correct, but the third layer from FamilySearch has me befuddled.

Bronnholzheim Familien Register (Crailsheim, Gröningen u. Oa, Germany), January 1808, section B, folio 13, entry for Johann Bernhard Beging and Maria Catharina Beging [Johann Leonhard Belschner and Maria Catharina geb. Hornnug]; imaged in "Württemberg, Germany, Family Tables, 1550-1985", database with digital images, Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com : downloaded 21 May 2021), path Crailsheim, Gröningen u. Oa > Familienbücher u. Familienbuch 1808; imaged from Evangelische Kirche Gröningen (OA. Crailsheim), Kirchenbuch, 1550-1957, (Stuttgart, Germany : Haupstaatsarchive Stuttgart, 1991), FHL microfilm 1858937

Submitted byEEon Thu, 07/29/2021 - 11:20

Tami, would you give us an image number? The path you give leads cleanly to FHL microfilm 1858937. However, there are 828 images and, as you say, there are multiple items and sections.

 

Submitted byEEon Thu, 07/29/2021 - 14:23

Tami, you’ve “struggled” well. There are just a couple of points on which EE would handle this differently, as indicated in red, below:

      1.  Bronnholzheim Familien Register (Crailsheim, Gröningen u. Oa, Germany), January 1808, section B, folio 13, entry for Johann Bernhard Beging and Maria Catharina Beging [Johann Leonhard Belschner and Maria Catharina geb. Hornnug]; imaged in "Württemberg, Germany, Family Tables, 1550-1985", database with digital images, Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com : downloaded 21 May 2021), path: Crailsheim, Gröningen u. Oa > Familienbücher u. Familienbuch 1808 > image 553; imaged from FHL microfilm 1858937.

First, the image number needs to be included. 

Second, one statement in your Layer 3, “imaged from Evangelische Kirche Gröningen (OA. Crailsheim), Kirchenbuch, 1550-1957, (Stuttgart, Germany : Haupstaatsarchive Stuttgart, 1991), is misleading—though it is not your fault. You say that you got this from the FHL cataloging data for FHL microfilm 1858937. There, we find this:

The labels used in FHL's cataloging data reflects standard (meaning consistent) "fields" that the catalog database uses for all types of material, whether published or not.  When cataloging a published book, the FHL catalog enters the actual publication data in that field. When material is not published, but filmed, the filming date and place also go in that field. In this case, the “Publication” field is followed by the date and place of filming, rather than publication.

Despite its own cataloging label, the Family History Library has always cautioned us that materials of this type are not published. Its contracts with the owners of the material do not allow then to publish it. Even today these records are not “published online,” as indicated by the lock-and-key icon telling the world that we must go to FHL or a Family History Center to use it.

For this reason, EE is dropping that part of your citation. If you want to include when and where the filming took place, then the citation might be adapted this way.

      1.  Bronnholzheim Familien Register (Crailsheim, Gröningen u. Oa, Germany), January 1808, section B, folio 13, entry for Johann Bernhard Beging and Maria Catharina Beging [Johann Leonhard Belschner and Maria Catharina geb. Hornnug]; imaged in "Württemberg, Germany, Family Tables, 1550-1985", database with digital images, Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com : downloaded 21 May 2021), path: Crailsheim, Gröningen u. Oa > Familienbücher u. Familienbuch 1808 > image 553; imaged from FHL microfilm 1858937, created at Haupstaatsarchive, Stuttgart, 1991.

Submitted byTamion Thu, 07/29/2021 - 15:24

Thank you for your response and thorough explanation of layer three. There is so much to learn when creating a citation. Inserting the image number into the citation has me questioning something I thought I read about images found at Ancestry.com and other like databases. I understood that an image number was not necessary in a citation because these images move within the database and image numbers change just as a URL address might change for a particular image; have I misunderstood? I believe this was in my reading regarding census records.

 

Yes, Tami, that caution was attached to the discussion of censuses, for three reasons. (1) So many people are tempted to substitute the image number for the page number, because census pages have such erratic numbering. (2) Censuses are so ubiquitous on the web, with different providers dividing them in different ways. (3) Because of the way censuses are organized at most sites, we don't usually cite them to a specific "collection" with an image number needed to find it within the collection. When and if someone substitutes the image number for the page number, they create havoc for themselves and others.