Penned or Stamped? (Census pages)

By Anonymous on Mon, 09/24/2012 - 01:21

Forums

I don’t know if this subject has been discussed before. I have a 1940 census. For the page (or sheet) number, there is number 3 written in and a letter A already pre-printed on the sheet.

 

Is the page number, when used in the citation, considered penned because the number 3 is written? What about the letter A? In my “version” of the citation, I used 3A but didn't indicate if it was penned or stamped?

 

Thank you,

Submitted byEEon Mon, 09/24/2012 - 13:25

Cormac, you've raised good questions that underscore the need for all of us to understand the records we use.

These particular issues are addressed at length in EE 6.8, available here at the website under the tab "Sample Text Pages." Particularly note three sections:

  • "Folio/Sheet Numbers (ABCD)"
  • "Penned Numbers vs. Stamped Numbers"
  • "Sheet Numbers (by Enumeration District)"

Submitted byCormacon Sun, 09/30/2012 - 20:46

Thanks, Editor. I looked at the file you suggested and I think I understand what it said. But I am still confused. Here is my example;

 

 

My guess is that when citing as to your standard that if one had to decide if this example were either penned or stamped, that I would say penned. Although you could almost that the page/sheet number is both penned and stamped.

 

Thanks,

Submitted byCormacon Sun, 09/30/2012 - 21:04

Yeah, I found that out. It showed up in the comment box before. 

 

I tried again. What is this? Penned or stamped? My guess is penned.

Submitted byEEon Mon, 10/01/2012 - 10:30

Thanks for the explanatory image, Cormac. Don't we just love all the quirks that censuses involve?

What you've uploaded, obviously, is both penned and stamped. It's also the type of census pagination that's discussed under 6.8's "Sheet Numbers (by Enumeration District)":

"SHEET NUMBERS (BY ENUMERATION DISTRICT)
"Beginning in 1880, U.S. censuses divided counties and cities into enumeration districts (EDs). The census forms are typically printed, with “Page____” or “Sheet ____” appearing in a top corner, and each ED starts its numbering with page or sheet 1. If you choose to cite the page or sheet number that corresponds to an enumeration district, rather than a stamped page number, you should (a) use the exact term sheet or page, whichever appears for that year, and (b) place that number immediately after the ED number to which it belongs."

In 1900, the Census Bureau adopted the alpha-numeric folio system also discussed at 6.8. Therefore, from 1900 forward, when we cite the ED page number that the enumerator wrote in the blank, we also add the A, B, C, or D to indicate which side of the folio carries the entry of interest.

Prior to 1880 is when we have the most problems with the stamped-number vs. penned-number issue. As 6.8 also explains:

"PENNED NUMBERS vs. STAMPED NUMBERS
"Many census pages carry more than one set of page numbers. For U.S.federal censuses, enumerators carried loose sheets on their rounds and numbered them as they used them. After they submitted copies to the Census Bureau, those copies were bound into volumes that contained the returns of several enumerators, each of whom had already numbered their pages. The Bureau then created a consecutive numbering scheme for the whole volume. Typically, the Bureau’s number will be
stamped, while the original number will be penned."

The ED numbers on the preprinted sheets for 1880–1940 replaced this old system in which each enumerators penned their page numbers wherever it pleased them. Once the ED sheets were submitted to the Census Bureau and prepared for binding, they were still stamped consecutively within each volume. Below, you will find a clipped portion of a header from the 1940 census  of Essex Co., MA. Notice  to the left of the ED p. no. block, the stamped number 197. That's what the Bureau's "stamped" numbers looked like.

 

Submitted byCormacon Sun, 10/07/2012 - 00:28

Sorry for not replying any sooner. No wonder for the confusion, We were talking about two different areas on the census.

 

Ok, if we were to compose the citation for the example that I gave, it would be wrong to put 3A down as the Page ID. Right? Or, if I get what you said in EE 6.8, you would put in the page “section”, sheet 3A. Since your example has a page number AND a sheet number, would you just put the page number (stamped)? Forgive me if I have a LOT of questions, but going by the example I was using to construct the citation, the person used the sheet number (in the case, 3B) as the page number and listed it as such, p. 3B. When it should have been listed as a sheet number.

 

Going by the available information on your example census, the citation would look something like this;

 

1940 United State Federal Census, Essex County, Massachusetts, population schedule, p. 197 (stamped)

 

Right?

Submitted byEEon Sun, 10/07/2012 - 12:24

Cormac,

The key point is the last one EE made above (last paragraph). Citations for the 1940 census are constructed the same way as those for 1880 forward (EE 6.28, 6.30–6.32). Let's try putting it another way:

  • For pre-1880 censuses, because returns were not organized by numbered enumeration districts, we use whatever page numbers are penned or stamped thereon. When multiple numbers exist on a page, we specify which number set we are using.
  • Beginning in 1880, each census page carries an enumeration district number, and each district uses its own pagination. Therefore, we cite Enumeration District ____, Sheet/Page _____.

If, as in your example above, we cite the stamped page number for 1880–1940 censuses, then the only way to relocate the household would be to turn page by page in every ED district for that county until we find your "p. 198." For censuses that are arranged by enumeration districts, citing the ED number is essential to the location process. Once we cite the ED number, then we cite that ED's sheet or page number. In the SnagIt image we attached above the "E. D. No." is 5-13 and the "Sheet No."is 3A.

Submitted byCormacon Sun, 10/07/2012 - 21:40

Oops! You're right, I did forget to include the enumeration district. So, with the information available on the census portion you attached above, the partial (corrected) citation would look like this;

 

1940 United State Federal Census, Essex County, Massachusetts, population schedule, enumeration district (ED) 5-13, p. 197 (stamped)

 

But my point was, that if you refer to a sheet number as a page number when there is no page number either stamped or penned on the census is incorrect. If I understand things correctly, if the page number on the 1940 Essex Co MA were not there, the proper way would be to say, “... enumeration district (ED) 5-13, sheet no. 3-A, ...”

 

Here are a couple of my “guidelines” as I understand things;

1. If there a page number on the census, label it as a page number.

2. If there is NO page number, but there is a sheet number, refer to it as a sheet number and not as a page number.

 

I hope that I am not driving someone too crazy.

Cormac wrote:  But my point was, that if you refer to a sheet number as a page number when there is no page number either stamped or penned on the census is incorrect. If I understand things correctly, if the page number on the 1940 Essex Co MA were not there, the proper way would be to say, “... enumeration district (ED) 5-13, sheet no. 3-A, .. .

Cormac,

Let's put it this way:

  • When the census forms specifically say "E. D. No. ______, Sheet No. ___  A[B,C,D]" (as in 1940), then our citation should cite those numbers because that is the organization scheme that was devised for the census. That's what we have to use to relocate it.
  • If the sheet number is torn away or unreadable, then we use the stamped page number, and we indicate that we are using that stamped page number. We don't refer to the stamped number as a "sheet no."
  • If because of some quirk, we feel we should use both the stamped page number and the ED sheet number, we're free to do so.

Does that clarify things?

 

Cormac's draft for a 1940 census citation reads:

1940 United States Federal Census, Essex County, Massachusetts, population schedule, enumeration district (ED) 5-13, p. 197 (stamped).

A few tweaks are still needed:

  1. Sheet no. As mentioned in EE's message above, the ED sheet number needs to be given. If we prefer to include the stamped page number, then we should not position it after the ED number, because there aren't 197 pages within that ED. Those stamped page numbers are a pagination system used by the Census Bureau headquarters to organize all the individual EDs turned in for, say, Essex County. Because that pagination runs consecutively throughout the county or the municipality, regardless of the EDs, when we use the page number, we place it immediately after our identification of the county and municipality.
  2. Municipality. This is missing from the citation above and the municipality name is needed before we can locate the ED numbers within that municipality. (That point is made by the fact that the SnagIt clip EE attached, above, did not show the municipality name because EE focused on the numbers we were discussing. Therefore, you did not know the municipality name to use in your citation and to find it you would have had to search the sub-menus for all 35 "populated places" in Essex County.)
  3. Household ID. This,too, wasn't on the snippet but would be needed for the citation.
  4. Website ID.

All together, the reference note format for the 1940 census might be this:

     1. 1940 U.S. census, Essex County, Massachusetts, population schedule, p 197 (stamped), Andover (Frye Village), ED 5-13, sheet 3-A, household 44, James J. Sullivan family; digital image, Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 8 October 2012), citing National Archives microfilm T627, roll 1577; Ancestry's database misidentifies this head of household as James F. Sullivan.

Eagle-eyed Forum users will likely note that this a bit shorter than the format suggested on 3 April by Thomas MacEntee under the thread "1940 Census Image - Source Citation." At least, it would be shorter if we did not have to add the comment about Ancestry's misidentification. (EE did not weigh in at that time, because the 1940 census had just been released, websites were crashing under the demand, and EE had not yet been able to use it.)

Submitted byJillaineon Mon, 10/08/2012 - 13:22

I didn't pay close enough attention to all the variations of what's required for which census year citations. 

Submitted byEEon Tue, 10/09/2012 - 11:19

Common problem, Jillaine. Researchers do tend to focus on the information in the census entry and overlook the quirks in the record that can later cause them problems.

 

Submitted bynancymentonlyonson Thu, 02/06/2014 - 16:32

Following on up Cormacs queries above, I have the following for a family that overlaps two pages in the 1910 Philadelphia City, Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania census: my citation for the Albert Mash family ED 847, sheet 7 B follows, them my question: 1910 U. S. census, Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania, population schedule, Philadelphia, 34 Ward, unpaginated, enumeration district (ED) 847, sheets 7 B, 8 A, dwelling 135, family 159, Albert H. Mash; digital image HeritageQuestOnline (access through participating libraries: accessed 20 October 2012); citing National Archives microfilm publication T 624, roll 1406    Please note that I hit the italics and bold buttons above but could not undue them following the HeritageQuestOnline phrase before the parentheses, sorry  my question is7 B has no penned or stamped number, the following page has p. 231 stamped on it and it is sheet 8 A.  Are we saying that when there is no page number use the sheet number /s after the Ed info as 7 B/8 A? TAnother question is the stamped page number that appears on the page 7 A prior to sheet 7 B  has p. 230 stamped, why is it incorrect to cite the 7B page as 230  recto? Thanks for any thoughts Also how do I cancel the italics etc. buttons at the top here ?                                                                                                                                                      

Submitted byEEon Thu, 02/06/2014 - 17:52

Nancy wrote: "7B has no penned or stamped number, the following page has p. 231 stamped on it and it is sheet 8A."

This is quite common, Nancy. The basic issue is the difference between a page and a sheet of paper.  In the modern world, we are accustomed to each side of the sheet (or a folded folio's leaf) having its own number. In past times, each sheet or leaf had one number. Its front and back would then be differentiated as A and B or recto and verso.

With many late-nineetenth or early-twentieth censuses, the enumerator in each district used either loose sheets  two sides were pre-stamped A and B (or folded folios on which each side of a leaf was stamped A, B, C, D, etc.). On each side, he then penned his sheet number—hence, sheet 7A, 7B, 8A, etc. When the sheets were forwarded to the Census Bureau, they were bound into ledgers, at which time each sheet was stamped with one number that represented its position in the bound volume.

For more explanation and what to cite, see EE 6.8 "Citing Page, Folio, or Sheet Numbers."

Submitted bynancymentonlyonson Fri, 02/07/2014 - 09:14

Many thanks for your feedback in regard to my questions. I had read and reread the EE 6.8 "Citing Page, Folio, or sheet numbers hoping I could get it through my head. Sorry but I'm still not clear. If there is a family at the bottom of the page and it extends to the top of the next census page (true of this family), and there is no page number stamped or written (on the page where the family head is listed) but there is a sheet number 7B on it, and the next page with the rest of the family has a stamped number and the sheet is 8B, I would follow the rule on sheet numbers by ED district that says " if you choose to cite the page or the sheet" in other words you actually choose which method? So my citation, in order to cover the fact that the family is split over two pages, would say ED 847 sheets 7 B, 8 A all in the one citation? no reference to a stamped number? Sorry I'm trying to get it right so I won't have to ask again. Many thanks, Nancy

Submitted byEEon Fri, 02/07/2014 - 11:08

Nancy:

Sorry to misunderstand your question. The answer is yes: when you have both stamped and penned page numbers, you may choose to cite either. Just indicate which it is that you are citing. When pages and leaves have multiple numbering systems going on and households are divided across inconsistently numbered pages and sheets, we do seek the simplest and clearest way to express the essentials.

In the citation that you gave initially, the only nit we would pick is with the inclusion of the term "unpaginated." There is stamped pagination going on; but it just stamps one side of each sheet and the side you need doesn't carry the stamp. It would be "correct" to say that the data is from either of the following:

  • p 230 (verso) and p. 231 (recto), ED 847, sheets 7B-8A
  • ED 847, sheets 7B-8A

Even with the shorter version, the entry can be easily found again from the state, county, ward, ED data that you've given.

Submitted bynewonashon Sat, 09/27/2014 - 15:04

A couple questions about your reference note in #12 above:

  1. 1940 U.S. census, Essex County, Massachusetts, population schedule, p 197 (stamped), Andover (Frye Village), ED 5-13, sheet 3-A, household 44, James J. Sullivan family; digital image, Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 8 October 2012), citing National Archives microfilm T627, roll 1577; Ancestry's database misidentifies this head of household as James F. Sullivan.

First, would it be redundant to use instead in the reference note:  "p 197 (recto) (stamped)" to distinguish between the two pages?  That is, do we assume that it is the first page if we don't see "recto" or "verso"?

Secondly, I am used to citing an individual in a census reference note.  You have "James J. Sullivan family."  Is that a personal preference?  If I'm citing the census, for example, to show where all of the family was living in 1940, it would save time not having to change the name in each individaul's reference note, and it certainly would save space in a report.

Dennis, I just love hearing from EE users who want to add more to a citation than what EE considers bare essentials. That shows the user is really thinking. 

The usual answer applies here, too: In our research notes, we can add anything else we want. After all, they're our notes. Whatever we want to add that will help to clarify something in our own minds—or perhaps help others who use our work later—is fair game, from EE's perspective. If we later publish that work in a journal, or a book that's funded by a press, they'll dictate all the stuff we have to omit. But in our own notes, we can use as much detail as we want to use.

As for whether or what individuals should be identified in a reference note for a census entry, it depends upon what we're documenting:

  • If our narrative refers to a family on a census, then it would be appropriate to cite the whole household in which that family appears.
  • If our narrative refers to John Brown, but he's living in John Whoever's household, then we should identify that other household.
  • If our narrative refers to John Brown alone, and he's the head of his own household, then we can just name John Brown and not bother saying "household."

EE gives models for this 'n that, but it can't model everything. What it does try to do is to give an explanation of essentials, model a few variances, and encourage everyone to learn basic rules (i.e., Chapters 1 and 2). Past that point, we need flexibility in our citations so that we can most-accurately express what we're working with.

Submitted bynewonashon Sat, 09/27/2014 - 18:04

Thank you for your responses to my questions.

After I posted my two questions, I noticed that your reference note had the stamped page number before the ED number and the sheet number, and then I saw your explanation about this in #12 above.  Since my software automatically puts the page number after the ED and sheet numbers, since it would take a lot of time to manually rewrite all such reference notes, and since, as I understand it, I don't need both a stamped page number and a sheet number, I think I'll be eliminating stamped page numbers from my reference notes.

One more question for the day, if I may.  I am looking at a 1880 census where A, B, C., etc. are printed, but they are not used to distinguish between different pages.  Page no. 1 (penned) has a printed A on it.  Page no. 2 (penned) has a printed B on it.  Page no. 3 (penned) has a printed C on it, etc.  Insofar as the letters don't seem to add anything, it seems to me that having "page 1 (penned)" in a reference note is just as good as having "page 1-A (penned)" (although, technically, the A part isn't penned, so I'm inclined to simply use "page 1 (penned)".)  Am I missing anything?

Dennis,

The "penned" or "stamped' notation is needed in those cases in which a page has both penned numbers (used by census marshals to aggregate what they are sending in to the Bureau) and stamped numbers (which bureaucrats later created using a rotary stamp to number loose-leaf sheets from many marshals, after they were bound in a volume). When two or three different numbering schemes exist on a page, then our ID of that record needs to indicate which scheme we used. There may be multiple "printed" numbers on a page, in which case we have to devise our own way of saying what we are using.

If there's just one set of numbers, as in 12-A, with the 12 being penned in while the A is preprinted (rather than stamped), then all we need to do is say "page 12-A" (or "sheet 12-A," as it is in some cases). We don't need to say that part is penned and part is pre-printed. As a rule, where there are sheets or pages numbered A, B, C, D, it's usually wise to include that letter along with the number.