Additonal Layer, or new citation

By Anonymous on Sun, 10/01/2017 - 01:22

Forums

I recently found a reference on Ancestry to a marriage record I have difficulty finding.  It was a database, and with the information provided, I was able to contact the county clerk's office and quickly received an email copy with the information provide.  I think what is important was that I had previously contacted the county clerk's office directly and they had performed a search for me that came up negative. But once I had the Ancestry information, mispellings and all, they were able to find the record almost immediately.

With that, I wrote a citation using the information provided by Ancestry to include the original data (which seems scarce) and stated I subsequently was able to get my copy due to the information provided in the database.  I added that as information in an additional line. I think it is important as a search with "what we know", turns up negative. 

Or should I have an entirely new source for the email correspondence and record copy?  Here is my citiaton.

"Texas, Select County Marriage Records, 1837-2015," database,  Ancestry  (www.Ancestry.com; accessed 26 Sep 2017) referencing marriage of Guadelupe [Guadalupe] Gonzales and Raquel Tarrias [Farias] on 9 Oct 1926 licensed date 14 Oct 1926, document number 19260542; citing Cameron County, Texas Marriage Records, Cameron County Clerk's office, Brownsville, Texas.  Copy of record received via email 27 Sep 2017 from Vital Statistics Supervisor, Cameron County Clerk's Office, when above information provided. I appreciate your feedback. Raul

Submitted byEEon Sun, 10/01/2017 - 16:34

Raul, you have indeed used two sources.  One is Ancestry's database, which is a derivative source created by Ancestry.  You also have an image copy provided by the courthouse. (I'm presuming it to be an image copy, though you first-referenced it as an "email copy" which could be (a) either an email that abstracts details from the record or (b) an email with an image attached.)  Grouping the two into one citation in which you explain the connection between the two is appropriate.

When you cite the second source, for fuller details you might follow one of the email models in EE's chapter 3 That would add the name of the person who supplied the record and the email address for future reference. Also, when we cite a courthouse office, we should include the town or city in which the courthouse stands. Some counties across the country have multiple courthouses.

Submitted byRaul_Gon Mon, 10/02/2017 - 22:51

Thank you for your response.  I consulted the chapter and section you referenced, plus the Quick check model.  I struggled a bit with the linking language, but came up with the citation below.  I get concerned where to get "wordy" in a citation.  

"Texas, Select County Marriage Records, 1837-2015," database,  Ancestry (www.Ancestry.com; accessed 26 Sep 2017) referencing marriage of Guadelupe [Guadalupe] Gonzales and Raquel Tarrias [Farias] on 9 Oct 1926 licensed date 14 Oct 1926, document number 19260542; citing Cameron County, Texas Marriage Records, Cameron County Clerk's office, Brownsville, Texas; image provided by Erika de la Torre, Vital Statistics Supervisor, Cameron County Clerk's office, Brownsville, TX [(E-ADDRESS) FOR PRIVATE USE,] to Gonzales Jr, Raul, e-mail with image copy when above information provided, 27 Sep 2017, privately held by Raul. Thank you,Raul

Raul, the uncertainty you are feeling about "linking language" is happening because you're trying to create a link between two separate things that should not be linked.

Going back to your original effort, you recognized that you had used two different sources and you put them in different sentences. That instinct of yours was squarely on target. You had two different sources to cite. They can both be cited in the same reference note, but not in the same sentence.

Back in our school days, we were told that we could put multiple sources in the same citation sentence and use a semicolon to separate them. That worked fine then, because we were citing basic books and articles—simple stuff that had no internal semicolons to create confusion. However, when we cite complex sources that do have internal semicolons (like documents in an archive or citations to databases that also have to report what the database is citing) we do not put multiple sources in that one sentence. 

Using the details you cite in your last message, let's separate it all into its two parts. The citation to your first sources, the database, is in black (with occasional tweaking in red). The citation to your second source, the image you received by email, is in blue.

"Texas, Select County Marriage Records, 1837-2015," database,  Ancestry (www.Ancestry.com; accessed 26 Sep. 2017), entry for marriage of Guadelupe [Guadalupe] Gonzales and Raquel Tarrias [Farias], 9 Oct. 1926 (license date 14 Oct. 1926), document number 19260542; citing Cameron County, Texas Marriage Records, Cameron County Clerk's office, Brownsville, Texas. Also, Erika de la Torre, Vital Statistics Supervisor, Cameron County Clerk's office, Brownsville, TX [(E-ADDRESS) FOR PRIVATE USE,] to Gonzales Jr, Raul, 27 Sept. 2017; privately held by Raul.

 

Submitted bycwhermann28on Sun, 09/20/2020 - 21:44

I was able to identify a deed book and page number from browsable images of the actual County Grantor/Grantee Index books on FamilySearch.  Images of the deed book itself was not availbable so I contacted the county clerk's office and requested a copy of page # in book # which they graciously provided to me as image attached to an email.  Since the actual books are available at the county clerks office, I was  was just going to use the basic format in EE 10.5:

Latah County, Idaho, "Deeds," book 43, p. 524-525; William and Caroline Gibb to John Gentry; County Clerk's Office, Moscow.

I was not going to add a second layer noting I viewed the Grantor index book  online because anyone contacting the Clerk's office with information provided would be able to obtain the same image.  Or if one physically went to the office, they would find the same Grantor Index Book to locate the book and page number to obtain the image.  I downloaded the image of the index page, noted the FamilySearch file number and image number within the file for my research records along with a note of my request and response.

I also assume it is not important to note in the citation that I received them via email versus mail versus physically going to the clerk's office.

I downloaded the image of the index page, noted the FamilySearch file number and image number for my records along with a note of my request and response for my research records.

Just want to confirm I am on the right track with this.

Curt

 

Submitted byEEon Mon, 09/21/2020 - 21:25

Curt, you are definitely on the right track. You've reasoned well through the issues. Glad you were able to get the document from the local courthouse.

Submitted byStewartfamilyhistoryon Thu, 10/01/2020 - 17:35

EE, you had recommended following one of the email models in EE's chapter 3.  I only found one example in 3.42 for "PRIVATE HOLDINGS: PERSONAL E-MAIL."  Would you help me understand this further?  Is the email from the person representing the courthouse now considered a private holding?

Thank you for clarifying,

Paula

Submitted byEEon Fri, 10/16/2020 - 08:56

Paula, an email sent to you from anyone, held by you, is a private holding. No one can go to the courthouse, the cemetery office, or a corporation and obtain a copy of that email sent to you. It's held by you. It's private. And it's not a situation of "now considered ..."  It's always been considered that.