Marriage License and Certificate on same document

By Anonymous on Fri, 11/23/2012 - 21:02

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My parents marriage license also contains the marriage certificate on the same document.  Are these two different sources?  Do I create two seperate citations for the same source?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Allen.

Submitted byEEon Sat, 11/24/2012 - 09:03

Allen, there's another key issue here that you did not mention. Is this the "certificate" your parents were given by the minister or official who performed the ceremony? Or is this a page from a courthouse or townhall marriage register?

Submitted byxlr8on Sat, 11/24/2012 - 11:08

Yes, it is the license issued by Muskogee, Muskogee, Oklahoma, as well as the certificated signed by the minster on the day of the ceremony.  I'm having trouble pasting a copy of the document.  I'll keep trying.  Allen.

 

Allen, it is good that you uploaded the image. From it, we can discern the answer to the critical question EE raised in the earlier reply to you—i.e.:

Is this the "certificate" your parents were given by the minister or official who performed the ceremony? Or is this a page from a courthouse or townhall marriage register?

The item your image depicts the former, a family memento rather than an officially recorded document from the county courthouse. The basic format for family mementoes of all types is at EE 3.25. As you can see there, you will

  • create an identity for your document (say, Wilson-Calvert Marriage License and Certificate of Marriage);
  • cite the date of the document;
  • cite the present location of the document;
  • add any other description that's appropriate (for example, in this case, you would want to note the fact that the certificate says it was recorded in Record Book 2, page 165);
  • identify the provenance of your document.

The details needed for this citation differ considerably from those you would be citing if you had imaged a courthouse marriage file or a page from a marriage register. The variety of marriage record types recorded or filed in courthouses are covered at EE 9.4 (pages 434–37).

Submitted byxlr8on Sun, 11/25/2012 - 16:58

Thanks for your reply.  I must be confused about vital records.  I'm sure you noticed this document was signed by both the county clerk and the deputy clerk, and noted that the document was recorded by them on 12 August 1942.  The back of the document has the record and page number where it is filed.  The book and page number you mentioned is for the minister's credentials.  Then the minister signed and dated on the day of the marriage.  So this is just a "family momento"?   So are all the death certificates, marriage licenses and birth certificates I have just "family momentos"?  What does a "courthouse marriage file" look like?  Thanks again for your help, Allen.

 

Allen, thank you for the new upload of the backside. That backside is always important. Without it, you are making half an assessment. You ask:

"So this is just a 'family m[e]mento? So are all the death certificates, marriage licenses, and birth certificates I have just 'family m[e]mentos'?"

Whether a document is a "family memento" or an officially recorded document depends upon the provenance of the document. That's something we have to decide on a case-by-case basis. Sticking with this one document, specifically: Where did you obtain this record of your parents' marriage. Was it a record in their possession that they passed on to you? Or did you go to the courthouse and access a loose-file collection of returned & recorded marriage licenses?

The backside of the document that you sent in your last message could fit either option.  Without knowing the origin of this image or the whereabouts (private possession or public facility) of the document from which you made this image, any attempt to craft a citation would be unreliable. Even though the backside of the document states the book and page in which it was recorded, we cannot cite that supposed book and page if we did not actually consult that supposed book and page.

 

Allen asked: "What does a 'courthouse marriage file' look like?"

Allen, there are various types of courthouse marriage files and registers. Today researchers have an excellent means by which they can explore these materials and learn first-hand the differences in record types. FamilySearch.org has posted tens of millions of images of courthouse records online, images made from the microfilm held by the Family History Library.

For U.S. records, go to https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&region=UNITED_STATES, then pick the states and counties of your interest. Spend some time with each. For some, there will be only index entries. For others there will be images. Choose the "browse" option and explore each area across time. Even within a single county, different film can cover different types of records. You'll reap rewards from the effort, even if you don't find a record on any specific person of interest.

 

Submitted byxlr8on Sun, 11/25/2012 - 22:05

We have completely lost track of the issue here.  All I want to know is if the license and the certificate are two different documents, even though they are on the same piece of paper.  The document itself is original.  It was filled out by the county clerk when the license was obtained, by the minister when the marriage ceremony was performed, returned to the courthouse to be recorded and filed, then returned to my parents.  The record at the courthouse is actually just a transcription of this document.  That is how marriages are recorded even today in the states I am familiar with.  I'm not asking "how" to cite the source.  I just want to know if the "marriage license" and the "certificate of marriage" are two seperate sources even though they are contained in one document.  Am I asking this question incorrectly?

Submitted byEEon Mon, 11/26/2012 - 20:24

Allen, you have one piece of paper. You have one document. You have one source. That one document has two parts.

Submitted byxlr8on Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:34

Thanks for all your help.  I really appreciate your making yourself available to help people like me.  I know it is time consuming.  Thanks again,  Allen.

Submitted byHiztorybuffon Tue, 04/08/2014 - 00:32

I also have one of those marriage license-marriage certificate copies. I got my copy from CT Dept of Public Health. I was thinking I would use the model from 9.5 Basic Formats: Loose Papers since this is a single page. I've gone to FamilySearch to try to view some licenses/certificates there, but there are none available; only marriage indexes for Connecticut. My copy is not numbered and there does not appear to be any place for a number.  My attempt at a citation is as follows: 

Connecticut, Bureau of Vital Statistics, marriage license and certificate, 11 Oct 1909, John Hrzanowski and Stanislana Makoski; Connecticut Department of Public Health, Hartford.

There is no mention of a county on the document, so I did not include that on the citation but included the agency that created it; however it seems redundant since it is a branch of the repository.  Do you have any suggestions or comments to add? 

Submitted byEEon Tue, 04/08/2014 - 17:03

Hiztorybuff:

Have you considered using 9.41 "State-level Certificates"? It would seem to fit your need more precisely than a format used for loose papers held in a county courthouse or city hall.

Regarding the lack of a number on the certificate, EE would suggest stating that in your citation. A simple way to do it would be to say "... unnumbered marriage license ..."

 

Submitted byHiztorybuffon Tue, 04/08/2014 - 21:27

Thank you! Because the surnames of both bride and groom are not how they spelled the name in later years and because Connecticut won't release requested certificates without the exact spelling, I decided to add the full names of the bride and groom. So my citation might read:

Connecticut Department of Public Health, unnumbered marriage license and certificate (1909), John Hrzanowski and Stanislana Mokoski; Bureau of Vital Statistics, Hartford.